


Love in Unexpected Places

by Marmoset (smallet)



Category: The Sentinel
Genre: First Times, Humor, M/M, Romance
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 1999-04-04
Updated: 1999-04-04
Packaged: 2017-12-11 03:46:28
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 63,388
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/793637
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/smallet/pseuds/Marmoset
Summary: <blockquote class="userstuff">
              <p>Two fans of the TV show The Watchman join an adult discussion list, discovering love in the process.</p>
            </blockquote>





	Love in Unexpected Places

## 

Love in Unexpected Places

by Marmoset

> Disclaimer: The universe of The Sentinel, including the characters  
>  of  
>  Jim Ellison, Blair Sandburg, Megan Connor, and Simon Banks, belongs to  
>  Pet Fly Productions and the copyright holders.  No money is being  
>  made  
>  from this piece; I wrote it for fun, only.  
>     
>  Notes:  
>     
>  1\. This piece is composed of a series of individual  
>  snippets.  If I  
>  followed the MPAA's rating system for each one, about  
>  3% of them  
>  might get an R rating for frank discussions of sexual acts in  
>  conversation; about 10% might get a PG-13 rating for language and  
>  'mature themes'; and the rest would probably get a PG rating.  
>     
>  2\. Because of the experimental nature of this piece, I've included an  
>  author's preface in Part 1.  In the preface I've explained the  
>  context in which this story grew, as well as given my  
>  acknowledgements  
>  to the many people who collaborated with me in the  
>  writing.  The  
>  story itself begins in Part 2.  
>     
>  3\. This piece has been edited  
>  and spell-checked.  But because of the  
>  fact that I've tried to retain  
>  some of the feel of e-mail and on-line  
>  chat, I've left in occasional  
>  spelling, usage, and grammar errors.  
>     
>  Warnings: m/m, some  
>  language  
>     
>  Summary: Two fans of the TV show The Watchman join an  
>  adult discussion  
>  list, discovering love in the process.
> 
> oooOOooo 
> 
> Love in Unexpected Places, Part 1 - The Author's Preface  
>     
>  How It All Began...  
>     
>  Back in early November of 1998, I suggested that the members of SENAD  
>  introduce themselves to the group, possibly revealing their ages,  
>  genders, occupations, locations, as well as how they came into the  
>  fandom and slash.  About 60 people out of the maybe 600 members of the  
>  list participated in the flurry of introductions.  
>     
>  But soon the sheer number of 'off-topic' posts began to annoy some  
>  'old-timers.'  "Haven't we gone through this before?" someone said.  
>  "Every one of these people owes an ObSenAD!" someone else proclaimed.  
>  I followed up that comment by asking whether the writer*really* wanted  
>  to read 60 ObSenADs.  She said she would delight in such a thing.  This  
>  request was followed by the wail: "But if we write ObSenads about  
>  ourselves, they  would all have to be Mary-Sues!"  
>     
>  Not necessarily, I thought to myself...  
>     
>  Suppose Jim Ellison and Blair Sandburg were fans of a TV show called  
>  The Watchman.  And suppose they independently discovered an e-mail list  
>  called WatchAD.  And suppose they joined the list - neither telling the  
>  other.  And suppose that in order to retain anonymity, they each logged  
>  on from an ISP which allowed pseudonyms and resisted finger searches.  
>     
>  So with that idea in mind, I posted two introductory posts to SENAD  
>  from Wolf and Panther with this heading:  
>     
>  To: WatchAD@channel1.list1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Who Are We?  
>     
>  I originally did this as a one-shot joke, one which got giggles from a  
>  few listsibs.  
>     
>  But as time went on, and other off-topic threads emerged, I found  
>  myself asking what Panther or Wolf would say about them.  So they would  
>  join in the discussion.  
>     
>  Then, a strange thing happened.  People started writing back to Panther  
>  and Wolf, commenting on their posts, giving advice.  
>     
>  Some of those people were aware that they were writing to fictional  
>  beings, but some people thought they were real members of the list.  I  
>  informed all who responded [off-list] that they had participated in a  
>  fictional conversation and then I asked whether they wanted their  
>  contribution to be included in the final concatenation of all of the  
>  snippets.  Most said "sure!"  A few said, "Oh my god!  My kids  
>  interrupted me so I didn't notice the header - NO! Don't include me!!"  
>     
>  Well, what happened was really odd.  For me, anyway.  
>     
>  What began as a random series of occasional posts began to develop a  
>  story line.  
>     
>  People wrote to me weekly wanting to know whether Panther and Wolf  
>  would ever discover that they were really Jim and Blair; whether Jim  
>  and Blair would ever get together, and so on.  
>     
>  I began to expand the story to include not only posts to WatchAD, but  
>  also private e-mails between Panther and Wolf, as well as conversations  
>  between Jim and Blair.  
>     
>  And then magically word came of a rally for The Sentinel to be held in  
>  LA on January 8, 1999.  So of course, The Watchman fans, including Jim  
>  and Blair and Panther and Wolf soon looked forward to their own rally. 
> 
> oooOOooo  
>     
>   The Experiment -  
>     
>  This piece was very much an experiment in many ways.  I used the  
>  formats of e-mail, on-line chat, a website, and dialogue - attempting  
>  to preserve many of the conventions of each.  
>     
>  Also, this story grew on a daily basis.  I responded to whatever topic  
>  was current on SENAD, so this was for the most part a spontaneously  
>  created piece.  
>     
>  This was also, in part, a collaborative work of art.  Several people  
>  participated in its creation, by responding to the guys on-list and in  
>  "private e-mails."  
>     
>  Of this group, I would like to thank:  
>     
>  Allison [who should practically be given co-author status], Grace,  
>  Rhianain, Ann, Tracy, Mindy, Trekkin, Karen, Shan, Michelle, Gina,  
>  Kelly, Anja, Angelika, Deb, Deka, Salleye, Jfarries, and Merry Lynne,  
>  who let me quote her about cultural trends at Thanksgiving.  
>     
>  At one point, I developed a writer's block and announced that fact on-  
>  list, asking for advice about the direction of the piece.  Several  
>  people responded, and  I was able to use most people's advice.  
>     
>  Of this group, I would like to thank:  
>     
>  Carls, Casey, JC, Allison, Rikwen, AnnaBleigh, Deka, Karen, JenienceJ,  
>  Ingrid, Chaomath, Cynthia, Cheyene, Rayden68, _Charly_, Kelly, Melanie,  
>  Jane, Tracy, Nadine, Susan, LMDarling, Noon, Tealin, Larrkin, Spship,  
>  Mick, GreyPessime, and Lmmorse.  
>     
>  And occasionally, I felt extremely depressed, thinking that really no  
>  one would want to read another one of these snippets, that they must be  
>  getting tired of them.  And just about the time I felt like hanging it  
>  all up, I would receive wonderful letters of encouragement or  
>  appreciation.  So ... I continued, until I found a reasonable point of  
>  closure.  
>     
>  Of this group, I would like to thank:  
>     
>  Abink, allison, angelika, ann, AnnaBleigh, Bablit, Barbra, Bronwyn,  
>  Carla, Casey, Cynthia L, Cynthia O, DJW3432, Dolimir, Emily, Fhianain,  
>  Grey, Gumprichs, Iffer, Ingrid, JC, Jean, Jenn, Jessalyn, Jfarries, JKL,  
>  Jody, Larrkin, Lite0991, LMDarling, Lmmorse, Louisa, lyrade, maharet1,  
>  Merri-Todd, Michelle, Mispriss, Moz, n.b. Cressy, Noon, Pamila, Pessime,  
>  Rayden68, Samantha, Shannon, Stacy, Susan, T. L. Webster, Tealin,  
>  Teavish, Tracy, Trekkinn, Ursula, Virginia, ggoose, Patty, Jenny,  
>  K'Kathy, Diane, and RG.  
>     
>  So what follows in Part 2 are time/date stamped snippets, which I've  
>  edited and then concatenated in pretty much the order they appeared  
>  between November 16, 1998 until January 17, 1999.  
>     
>  I hope you enjoy them.  
>     
>  \--Marmoset 
> 
> oooOOooo  
>    
> 
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:41:31 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Who are we?  
>     
>  My turn, I guess.  
>     
>  I'm a 29-year-old Caucasian male living in Washington state.  I'm a grad  
>  student working on my Ph.D. and do volunteer work with the local police  
>  department.  I'm unmarried and live with one roommate, a guy I work with  
>  in between teaching classes and working on my dissertation.  I don't  
>  have any children [though sometimes my roommate could seriously count as  
>  a candidate].  
>     
>  I don't really have a home town, a town that I'm actually *from* since  
>  my mom tended to move around a lot when I was a kid.  
>     
>  I started watching The Watchman three years ago -- just love the way the  
>  2 guys relate to each other on that show.  Reminds me a little bit of me  
>  and my roommate.  
>     
>  Unlike many on this list, I've not been reading slash for very long and  
>  I read slash stories only about this show, since I can identify with it  
>  more than I can reading love stories about loud erratic Captains and  
>  their Vulcans or about one-armed Ratboys and their friends, the  
>  seriously disturbed paranoid FBI agents.  
>     
>  But a student and a cop?  Well, yes.  I'm there.  
>     
>  Just don't tell my roommate.  
>     
>  Shhh...  
>     
>  I'm not out of EITHER of those closets, yet.  
>     
>  I'll let you know if there's an update on that.  
>     
>  Gotta go.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:16:31 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Who are we?  
>     
>  On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I'm a 29-year-old Caucasian male living in Washington state.  
>     [snip]  
>  : Just don't tell my roommate.  
>  :  
>  : Shhh...  
>  :  
>  : I'm not out of EITHER of those closets, yet.  
>  :  
>  : I'll let you know if there's an update on that.  
>     
>  Well, I was pulled right out of lurker status on this one!  
>  What do you know!  Someone from *my* neck of the woods -- and a guy!  
>     
>  There don't seem to be too many guys on this list and I was beginning to  
>  feel awash in estrogen here.  
>     
>  OK, I'll go.  
>     
>  I live in the Pacific Northwest also.  I'm a Caucasian male in my late  
>  30s and I work in law enforcement for a fairly large city about the size  
>  of Seattle.  I used to be an officer in the military, until about 8  
>  years ago.  
>     
>  I was married once to a smart, level-headed woman who did scientific  
>  work up here, but she eventually moved to California. I still like  
>  her but we just didn't work out.  Luckily, we didn't have any kids.  
>     
>  Live with a roommate.  He's who got me watching this damn TV show we all  
>  read about on this list.  Gotta say, though, I can really see the  
>  attraction.  Those guys seem just so *real* to me.  Like I'm  
>  watching*me* and my best friend.  
>     
>  He doesn't know I joined this list or that I read those stories -- I  
>  just started reading them a couple of months ago, when somebody on the  
>  list recommended one.  Something about the cop taking his student friend  
>  on a stakeout at a gay bar and the kid gets slipped a mickey and wakes  
>  up the next morning in the cop's bed and wonders how he got there.  Damn  
>  funny story!  
>     
>  Well, I've been reading them ever since, whenever I can get on the  
>  computer without my roomie noticing me.  
>     
>  I'm not sure I want him to know about my little hobby, here.  Think it'd  
>  Make him a little nervous to know he lives with a guy who starts  
>  breathing hard over m/m slash.  
>     
>  So really, I'm pretty much in the same boat as "Wolf."  Guess it's a  
>  pretty common dilemma.  
>     
>  Gotta go.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:16:00 -0800  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: ditties and trivia  
>     
>  Well, since I officially lost my lurker status last week when we had  
>  that rash of introductions, I thought I'd add my two cents here and  
>  maybe get some advice.  
>     
>  You see, I live with a roommate that I really think is a kick and that I  
>  think of as my best friend, but every once in a while, I worry that we  
>  really don't have that much in common.  And I'm wondering if it's the  
>  age difference.  
>     
>  You see, I was born in the late 50s and he was born in the late 60s and  
>  the world changed a lot in those 10 years.  
>     
>  I mean how is he going to really relate to a guy who grew up when  
>  regular guys just never wore earrings, who remembers being glued to the  
>  TV set when they did the walk on the moon, who remembers the Watergate  
>  thing unfolding, who remembers when the Beatles broke up, who remembers  
>  the deaths of Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix.  
>     
>  When he started college, personal computers were commonplace.  When I  
>  was 18, they were either nonexistent or rare.  
>     
>  I was growing up when homosexuality was illegal in every state in the  
>  US.  
>     
>  There were places where you could go to jail for having oral sex with  
>  your own *wife.*  
>     
>  I remember the first Earth Day.  
>     
>  So much that he takes as givens came into my life through turmoil.  
>     
>  For me, friendships are not easily made.  
>     
>  I'm just amazed that we can get along as well as we do.  But I worry  
>  that these differences in experience will create some unbridgeable gap  
>  someday.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 24 Nov 1998 20:34:50 EST  
>  From: Lorrellai@aol.com  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Historical Trivia Obsenad  
>     
>  << I'm just amazed that we can get along as well as we do.  But I worry  
>   that these differences in experience will create some unbridgeable gap  
>   someday. >>  
>     
>  ::smile and shaking head::  On the contrary, Panther, I think that these  
>  things will make your friendship closer.  What you talked about are  
>  memories, not perceptions - if *those* are too different then it can  
>  cause problems. But from what you've been describing, it sounds like you  
>  both have a lot to get and learn from one another.  
>     
>  Those of us who grew up with such givens (I was born in '74) tend to  
>  forget the struggles that brought them about - I am constantly amazed at  
>  all the years of turmoil and change that led to where we are today.  
>  Good *or* bad.  
>     
>  That you were there, that's just great - we tend to forget, or want to  
>  forget, things like segregation, the Cold War, etc etc etc.  We need  
>  people to remind us, so that we can appreciate such things and their  
>  results, not to mention the people who accomplished great deeds.  
>     
>  Don't sweat the age difference based solely on its existence - if  
>  couples can make it with 10 or more years difference between them, then  
>  so can friends!  :)  
>     
>  Grace  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 24 Nov 1998 17:21:34 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: ditties and trivia  
>  On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Well, since I officially lost my lurker status last week when we had  
>  : that rash of introductions, I thought I'd add my two cents here and  
>  : maybe get some advice.  
>     
>  : You see, I live with a roommate that I really think is a kick and that  
>  : I think of as my best friend, but every once in a while, I worry that  
>  : we really don't have that much in common.  And I'm wondering if it's  
>  : the age difference.  
>  :  
>  : You see, I was born in the late 50s and he was born in the late 60s  
>  :and the world changed a lot in those 10 years.  
>     
>  [snipped a lot of good examples]  
>     
>  : For me, friendships are not easily made.  
>  :  
>  : I'm just amazed that we can get along as well as we do.  But I worry  
>  : that these :differences in experience will create some unbridgeable  
>  : gap someday.  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  I *so* know what you mean!  
>     
>  But I'm coming from the other side of the gap.  
>     
>  I have a roommate who is about 10 years older, also, and sometimes he  
>  seems even older than that!  
>     
>  It's not that he's stodgy or anything like that; it's more like he's  
>  seen a lot of heavy stuff in his life.  Lotta mileage on that guy.  
>     
>  I have been wondering about this a lot lately.  I wonder if the way he  
>  was brought up will, as you say, make this gap unbridgeable.  
>  His upbringing and mine were, like, SO different.  Like 180 DEGREES  
>  different.  It's like I was brought up on Venus and he was brought up on  
>  freakin' Mars!  
>     
>  Even so, I really love this guy.  
>     
>  And that's part of the problem.  I'm afraid that, because of when and  
>  how he was brought up, he will, like, *freak* if I said anything  
>  remotely like that to him.  
>     
>  You see, really it isn't the fact that there are 10 years' worth of  
>  historical events that we don't have as shared experiences.  
>     
>  I'm worried but not because the Beatles had come and gone before I was a  
>  year old, not because I was still nursing when men first played golf on  
>  the moon, not because John Kennedy and Martin Luther King were names I  
>  read about in history books, not because I skipped over typewriters and  
>  went straight to PCs, not because I was a baby during the first Earth  
>  Day.  
>     
>  I'm almost 30, so at least 20 years' worth of historical events are  
>  events we *share*  
>     
>  No. What I worry about most is that despite the movement of history, the  
>  social changes in the past 40 years -- these changes have not made it  
>  any easier for 2 guys to relate to one another with any kind of  
>  affection.  
>     
>  This guy, my roommate, my best friend, is actually kind of affectionate  
>  on sort of an unconscious, non-verbal level.  But if I start getting too  
>  ... verbal ... about my feelings, it's back to the old insults and stuff  
>  that I remember from grammar school.  
>     
>  I know that the way he relates is pretty typical of guys, especially  
>  guys brought up when he was.  And maybe that's why I've always more  
>  easily made friends with women ...  
>     
>  But this guy has become really important to me. And it is that one  
>  difference that worries me the most.  
>     
>  I try to have faith.  I tend to be pretty sanguine about human  
>  potential.  I just hope the fact that we are just 2 human beings trying  
>  to do the best we can, given our natures, cultures, upbringings, and  
>  environment ... will be enough, will carry us through.  
>     
>  So, Panther, I know what you're going through!  
>     
>  Good luck,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:43:47 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: When did *you*?  
>     
>  I'm really glad we did all those intros last week.  Now I feel more like  
>  a member of this small society we've built here.  
>     
>  Anyway, the other day someone asked when we knew the guys first fell in  
>  love, or something like that.  
>     
>  I have another question.  When did you first fall in love with one of  
>  the characters?  
>     
>  I can tell some of you did because some of these posts just *drip* with  
>  lust. ;)  
>     
>  But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, attractive -- when  
>  was it that you went "Oh wow, what a guy!"  
>     
>  I can tell you one of those moments for me.  
>     
>  Maybe it wasn't the first moment, but it stood out.  
>     
>  Jake found out that Joe had been set up on a blind date. The guys were  
>  talking and Jake asked, you know, what if she wasn't very good looking.  
>  And the Joe said that he had talked to her for a while on the phone  
>  while they were making arrangements and that she seemed really nice,  
>  kinda witty.  The cop just seemed to *like* her when they talked.  Then  
>  he said, "Don't you know? It's the person, not the package."  
>     
>  I, like, dumped my popcorn, going "Right On!"  
>     
>  So ... listsibs ... any aha moments for you?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:04:49 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: When did *you*?  
>     
>  On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, attractive  
>  : -- when was it that you went "Oh wow, what a guy!"  
>     
>  : I can tell you one of those moments for me.  
>  :  
>  : Maybe it wasn't the first moment, but it stood out.  Jake found  
>  : out that Joe had been set up on a blind date.  The guys were  
>  : talking and Jake asked, you know, what if she wasn't very  
>  : good looking.  And Joe said that he had talked to her for a  
>  : while on the phone while they were making arrangements and that she  
>  : seemed really nice, kinda witty.  The cop just seemed to *like* her  
>  : when they talked.  Then he said, "Don't you know? It's the  person,  
>  : not the package."  
>  :  
>  : I, like, dumped my popcorn, going "Right On!"  
>     
>  Since it's pretty quiet on the list today, I thought I'd comment on  
>  Wolf's post.  
>     
>  I wish I could get you to talk to my roommate, talk some sense into him.  
>     
>  I missed that particular episode -- probably had to work that night --  
>  but we had a situation like this a while back and I kept *trying* to say  
>  the same thing, but just not in those words.  
>     
>  He kept talking about how this woman, a friend of his from school that I  
>  met accidentally while talking on the phone, was somehow not my type or  
>  not very attractive or something.  Kept using euphemisms like 'she has  
>  an *inner* beauty.'  
>     
>  I kept trying to tell him that looks were deceiving and that it didn't  
>  matter.  And he did eventually give up on trying to keep me from meeting  
>  her.  
>     
>  But I don't think he really ever 'got it.'  
>     
>  I love the guy, but sometimes he just seems so immature.  
>     
>  But maybe that's not the real reason why I'm so discouraged by that  
>  incident, though.  
>     
>  I think I'm worried that if he's so, I don't know, *conventional* about  
>  things like this, then probably he'll be conventional about other things  
>  that could cause *us* problems.  
>     
>  This is sort of funny, because most people look at us and see *me* as  
>  the old-fashioned guy and see *him* as 'new agey.' But that's just  
>  more proof that looks are deceiving.  
>     
>  Gotta get off now.  
>     
>  \-- Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:37:23 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: When did *you*?  
>     
>  Angela said:  
>     
>  : Well Wolf  
>     
>  :  
>  : I'd have to say it was in the pilot when Jake asked Joe to listen in  
>  : on the two female coeds to see what they were saying about him.  When  
>  : Joe told Jake that she thought he was a nerd he got this sad puppydog  
>  : look and I just wanted to cuddle him and stroke his ...er...ego a  
>  : little . Poor little guy!!!  
>     
>  : tc angela k :-)  
>     
>  I think Jake is great, too.  Reminds me a little bit of my roommate.  
>     
>  But for me, it's not what some of you guys call the puppy-dog look.  It  
>  seems to be more of an accumulation of things.  One thing that really  
>  impresses me about the kid is that he's not easily intimidated.  
>  Remember when he originally met up with Joe?  How much hostility he  
>  had to put up with before Joe finally lightened up and realized how  
>  much the kid meant to him?  Joe was so *in his face* but he never  
>  backed down.  
>     
>  Really impressed me.  
>     
>  Gotta go.  I hear the roommate coming.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 24 Nov 1998 23:17:21 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Allison <alyjude@webtv.net  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: ditties and trivia  
>     
>  To Panther and Wolf:  
>     
>  I have read your particular problems regarding living with someone who  
>  is 10 years older/younger and your fears about a generation gap and I  
>  find I can't help offering up some advice:  
>     
>  A few years ago I too had a wonderful roommate who happened to be ten  
>  years younger than myself...It was a strange arrangement...I am a female  
>  but needed a roommate to share expenses. The best candidate happened to  
>  be a guy....okay, a great looking guy. So we became roomies.....after  
>  almost three years of sharing everything "but" our beds, I came to  
>  realize I had fallen for the guy. But I was stubborn. I felt our age  
>  difference and the fact that he "couldn't" possibly feel the same for me  
>  was enough to refrain from telling him how I felt.  Then the unthinkable  
>  happened. He was killed in an auto accident. Just like that.  
>  One minute I'm ordering out Pizza, vegetarian, the way he liked it and  
>  the next, I'm getting a phone call from the CHP.  Seven months after his  
>  funeral I came across a journal of his and could not help but read it.  
>  It was then I discovered his love for me.  
>     
>  Panther and Wolf, don't wait. It is obvious from your words that you  
>  love your roomies...um...it is also obvious you are talking about each  
>  other so please, from someone who lost her true love for lack of a few  
>  simple words, listen to me and tell each other.  Years don't keep people  
>  apart,  lack of shared memories don't keep people apart, the fact that  
>  two people are of the same sex, mustn't keep two people apart.  Only  
>  turning your backs on the truth can keep you two apart.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:06:11 EST  
>  From: Lorrellai@aol.com  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: When did *you*?  
>     
>  Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  << But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, attractive - when  
>  was it that you went "Oh wow, what a guy!" >>  
>     
>  ::mild snickering, completely unable to help myself::  First time I saw  
>  the  cop shirtless comes to mind.  <vveg>  I know, I know, love not lust  
>  ...  Okay, now bear with me - I only came across this particular  
>  addiction last  year (what can I say, I'm a late bloomer <g>).  But one  
>  thing that definitely  hit the maternal chord was the "be careful who  
>  you piss off in little league  football" ep.  ::chuckle::  Just that  
>  image of our favorite police detective a)  as a kid and b) with such  
>  hurt in his eyes confronting his father ...  ::sigh  and wiping at  
>  eyes::  It just ... hit home.  Not in exactly the same way, you  know,  
>  but my family - well, the word dysfunctional seems to have been  created  
>  to describe it!  LOL.  Anyway ... I just went 'Awwww...C'mere,  lemme  
>  hug you!'  ::chuckle::  And then, of course, there's been the times  
>  when he's fully into Protector mode and gets that fierce look in his  
>  eyes ... Gods help that man if he tries to use that look on a female  
>  suspect - if she's anything like me, she'll go weak in the knees for  
>  *entirely* the wrong reasons! <eg>  
>     
>  Later!  
>     
>  Grace  
>     
>  (who knows perfectly well that's more lust than love - just gimme time  
>  ... and the new season. ;))  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:05:29 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Gray Hair and Other Signs of Aging  
>     
>  I guess we're all adults, here, and everything, but some of you ladies  
>  are enough to make a guy go beet red, what with all your talk about  
>  where the gray hairs are showing up!  
>     
>  Let me tell you -- I'd take gray, if I could just have some hair!  I  
>  know I keep it short, but I don't want to look like those guys that sort  
>  of comb it over that spot on top.  So I just sort of said to myself  
>  well, if there's no hair, there's no hair -- call it what it is.  
>     
>  I'm more worried about other things that come with age -- the muscles  
>  that aren't quite as tight, the thicker stomach.  Vanity, I know.  
>  There's other sort of personal stuff, but I really can't bring myself  
>  to be as 'out there' as some of you ladies.  
>     
>  Let's just say that there are things that I could do at 30 that I'm not  
>  quite up to doing at near 40. Well, I *can* but not as often or for as  
>  long.  
>     
>  Makes a guy a little nervous about trying to initiate a new  
>  relationship, if you follow.  Especially if it might be someone who  
>  happens to be a little younger.  
>     
>  Isn't this thread a little off-topic?  Don't we have to do something  
>  about that?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 10:39:05 -0700  
>  From: Ann Teitelbaum <friskybiz@earthlink.net>  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: gray hair and other signs of aging  
>     
>  Panther posted:  
>     
>  >Isn't this thread a little off-topic?  Don't we have to do something  
>  >about that?  
>     
>  Don't recall how long you've been here, Panther, but yep, you now 'owe'  
>  an ObWatchAD. :) That's a short (under 50 lines) dialogue, fiction  
>  snippet,  
>  poem, whatever that is about the show and the guys. That makes it about  
>  the show or about slash, and then it becomes on-topic again!  
>     
>  Feel creative, Panther? :)  
>     
>  Ann  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:54:24 EST  
>  From: Lorrellai@aol.com  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: gray hair and other signs of aging  
>     
>  Panther -  
>     
>  ROTFL yet again!  ::turning to other female members of list::  Told  
>  y'all I  could just about see their faces!!!!  
>  <g>  
>  Seriously tho, just remember that with age comes wisdom, not to mention  
>  greater sympathy, knowledge, and (::grinning already at imagining  
>  Panther's blush::) creative uses of such knowledge.  ;)  
>     
>  Okay, okay, I said serious!  So here 'tis - if the gal you meet is worth  
>  anything at all, she'll care more about the aforementioned qualities  
>  than the amount of hair on your head, or the state of any other part of  
>  your body.  What truly matters in a relationship  doesn't come from the  
>  physical but from the soul - love is blind.  Take it from a helpless  
>  (but never *hope*less) romantic.  ;)  
>     
>  Grace  
>     
>  (who knows the value of a good hug, true sympathy, and sincere love -  
>  mainly  
>  from not having any of the three in great abundance. ::sad smile::)  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:16:17 PST  
>  From: "tracy l" <canetr@hotmail.com>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Gray Hair and Other Signs of Aging  
>     
>  >I guess we're all adults, here, and everything, but some of you  
>  >ladies are enough to make a guy go beet red, what with all your talk  
>  >about where the gray hairs are showing up!  
>     
>  <snip>  
>     
>  Come on, Panther, lighten up and let your hair down <bg>.  This is a  
>  very friendly list.  You can tell us anything you like.  No need to fear  
>  a few gray hairs and a broader forehead.  Besides it probably gives you  
>  a look of intelligence and maturity.  Wish we women could age as  
>  gracefully.  
>     
>  What about you, Wolf?  Getting a little gray and bare up there?  Don't  
>  be shy.  Tell us.  
>     
>  Aging as I write,  
>  Tracy  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:52:34 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Snippet [Was Gray Hair and Other Signs of Aging]  
>     
>  : Panther posted:  
>  :  
>  : > Isn't this thread a little off-topic?  Don't we have to do something  
>  : > about that?  
>     
>  On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Ann wrote:  
>     
>  : Don't recall how long you've been here, Panther, but yep, you now  
>  : 'owe' an Ob-Watch-Ad. :) That's a short (under 50 lines) dialogue,  
>  : fiction snippet, poem, whatever that is about the show and the guys.  
>  : That makes it about the show or about slash, and then it becomes  
>  : on- topic again!  
>  :  
>  : Feel creative, Panther? :)  
>     
>  Listmistress Ann says I owe some sort of snippet or something because I  
>  veered off topic.  
>     
>  I'm not really a very creative guy when it comes to using words.  That's  
>  more my roommate's line.  
>     
>  Well, here goes nothing.  My first snippet:  
>     
>  Wednesday nights I watched a show  
>  About a Watchman by the name of Joe.  
>  His partner goes by the name of Jake  
>  And pretends to be a bit of a rake.  
>     
>  Joe says he loves Jake like a brother  
>  But we know they're really hot for each other.  
>  We shake our heads and roll our eyes  
>  How can they be such clueless guys!  
>     
>  \-- done --  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:14:18 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: American Thanksgiving  
>     
>  I know this is an international list, but the American Thanksgiving is  
>  coming tomorrow.  
>     
>  Thanksgiving is one of my favorite traditional holidays.  
>     
>  Every year I make a list of things I'm thankful for.  Being able to  
>  write to the people on this discussion list is one of them.  
>     
>  I feel a little lonely this year because my mom can't make it tomorrow;  
>  she's out of the country at the moment.  But maybe I can make a special  
>  dinner for me and my roommate.  He's not very close to his family so  
>  maybe I can be a substitute.  He's really become *my* family in the past  
>  couple of years.  
>     
>  Here's wishing everyone a pleasant weekend and to my American listsibs,  
>  Happy Thanksgiving!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:24:35 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Ditties and Trivia  
>     
>  On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, allison french wrote:  
>     
>  : To Panther and Wolf:  
>  :  
>  : I have read your particular problems regarding living with someone who  
>  : is 10 years  older/younger and your fears about a generation gap and I  
>  : find I can't help offering up some advice:  
>  :  
>  : [snip]  
>  : I felt our age difference and the fact that he "couldn't" possibly  
>  : feel the same for me was enough to refrain from telling him how I  
>  : felt.  Then the unthinkable happened. He was killed in an auto  
>  : accident. Just like that.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : I came across a journal of his and could not help but read it.  It was  
>  : then I discovered his love for me.   Panther and Wolf, don't wait. It  
>  : is obvious from your words that you love your roomies...um...it is  
>  : also obvious you are talking about each other so please, from someone  
>  : who lost her true love for lack of a few simple words, listen to me  
>  : and tell each other.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  I *so* appreciate your beautiful story of the love you felt for your  
>  much younger roommate and really felt for you when I found out that you  
>  lost him.  
>     
>  I do love my roomie but I think you have the wrong idea, here.  
>  I don't know Panther at all!  I saw his name for the first time on this  
>  list last week when we were doing all the introductions.  
>     
>  He may live in my general area of the country but my friend does not  
>  like to even use a computer, let alone join a list dedicated to  
>  discussing the slashier side of a TV show.  
>     
>  He doesn't like to listen to me talk about sex even in relation  
>  to*women* -- he'd, like, *freak* if he knew I was into reading about m/m  
>  romances.  
>     
>  Nevertheless, I *will* give a lot of thought about talking to my  
>  roommate, someday.  I would hate to be in the position of losing him and  
>  never letting him know.  
>     
>  \-- Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:51:49 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Ditties and Trivia  
>     
>  : On Tues, 24 Nov 1998, allison french wrote:  
>  :  
>  : To Panther and Wolf:  
>  :  
>  : I have read your particular problems regarding living with someone who  
>  : is 10 years older/younger and your fears about a generation gap and I  
>  : find I can't help offering up some advice  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : Panther and Wolf, don't wait. It is obvious from  your words that you  
>  : love your roomies...um...it is also obvious you are  talking about  
>  : each other so please, from someone who lost her true love  for lack of  
>  : a few simple words, listen to me and tell each other.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Allison,  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : I do love my roomie but I think you have the wrong idea, here.  I  
>  : don't  know Panther at all!  I saw his name for the first time on this  
>  : list last week when we were doing all the introductions.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  I gotta speak up, here.  
>     
>  I'm with Wolf on this.  
>     
>  Just because we live in the same *region* of the US and have similar  
>  problems with our roommates -- that doesn't mean we even know each  
>  other.  
>     
>  I mean do all of the listsibs that live in, say, Texas know each other?  
>  No.  
>     
>  Maybe it's a little unusual for *guys* to be on this list -- I saw  
>  introductions from only about 5 guys.  But all guys on this list aren't  
>  necessarily going to know each other, either.  
>     
>  It could be that our situation is not that unusual.  In fact, you have  
>  given us very good evidence that 2 people of disparate ages can be  
>  roommates and get along very well together.  
>     
>  Which has started me thinking that maybe my situation with my own  
>  roommate may not be as hopeless as I was thinking.  
>     
>  If you and your roommate and Wolf and his friend can get along so well,  
>  then maybe there's hope for me, too.  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf, keep us updated on your progress talking to your friend.  
>  Maybe if you can get talking with him, I can give it a try, too.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:11:59 -0600 (CST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel.com  
>  Subject: Panther's Obsenad snippet  
>     
>  Congrats Panther on losing  your literary " cherry "  
>     
>  It was good for me .<eg>  
>  Was it good for you ? <vveg>  
>     
>  tc   angela k  :-)  
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:11:17 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Panther's Snippet  
>     
>   On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Angelica wrote:  
>     
>  : Congrats Panther on losing  your literary " cherry "  
>  :  
>  : It was good for me .<eg>  
>  : Was it good for you ? <vveg>  
>  :  
>  : tc   angela k  :-)  
>     
>  I'm glad it was good for you ;)  
>     
>  I'm still not comfortable with creating stuff like that.  It was kind of  
>  hard to come up with words that rhyme AND made sense.  But it was kind  
>  of fun, I guess.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:47:13 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Body Image [snippet]  
>     
>  A few of us have been drifting off the discussion of the show and  
>  discussing our bodies and body images.  
>     
>  Nothing wrong with the topic, IMHO.  It's just that I've been told that  
>  now I have to write a snippet as a form of 'penance.'  
>     
>  I've never written anything fictional before, never thought I'd ever  
>  write about my two favorite guys Joe, the Watchman, and Jake, his  
>  partner.  I guess I'll just do this in script format.  Here goes ...  
>  my very first ... snippet:  
>     
>  \----------  
>     
>  Jake:  What's the matter, Joe?  
>     
>  Joe: A disturbing case today, Bud.  Not sure you wanna hear about it.  
>     
>  Jake: A murder?  A mangled corpse?  Did you need me there?  I should  
>  have been there, right?  
>     
>  Joe: Calm down, Jake. It was none of those things.  It was a case of  
>  child abuse  
>     
>  Jake: How did you get called into ... Oh God, Joe, they didn't ...  
>     
>  Joe: No.  She didn't die.  But she could have.  They found her lying in  
>  bed, unable to move and barely able to breathe.  She weighed only 80  
>  pounds.  
>     
>  Jake: How did she get that way?  
>     
>  Joe: After her parents died, her aunt took her in.  Things were fine  
>  until she turned about 9.  Then the aunt started keeping her on a very  
>  strict diet, to keep her weight down so she wouldn't be 'too fat.'  
>     
>  Jake: Aw maaann, why do they do that to girls?  
>     
>  Joe: I don't know. ...  Anyway, now she's 14 and she's about 5'6" and  
>  her aunt had her on a diet of less than 900 calories a day.  She  
>  wouldn't let her exercise because 'muscles' weren't 'feminine.'  
>     
>  Jake: What's going to happen to her?  
>     
>  Joe: They may be able to save her life.  But ...  
>     
>  Jake: But she'll be a mess for years.  
>     
>  Joe: Yeah.  
>     
>  \--end--  
>     
>  _______  
>     
>  I couldn't think of a good ending to this.  Sorry.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:39:24 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Gray Hair and Other Signs of Aging  
>     
>   On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, tracy l <canetr@hotmail.com> wrote:  
>     
>  : >I guess we're all adults, here, and everything, but some of you  
>  : >ladies are enough to make a guy go beet red, what with all your talk  
>  : >about where the gray hairs are showing up!  
>  :  
>  : <snip>  
>  :  
>  : Come on, Panther, lighten up and let your hair down <bg>.  This is a  
>  : very friendly list.  You can tell us anything you like.  No need to  
>  : fear a few gray hairs and a broader forehead.  Besides it probably  
>  : gives you a look of intelligence and maturity.  Wish we women could  
>  : age as gracefully.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : Aging as I write,  
>  : Tracy  
>     
>  After lurking for a while, I'm getting the impression that women are a  
>  lot more outspoken about these topics than I was raised to believe.  
>  Since you ladies seem to be in the majority here, I'll just have to  
>  adjust.  
>     
>  You seem to think that men age gracefully.  This is a misconception.  We  
>  may call it what it is -- bald is bald -- but that does not mean we like  
>  it.  
>     
>  I still think I look basically OK, but I don't get the 'looks' I once  
>  got when I was 10 - 15 years younger.  
>     
>   I feel so invisible at times.  I've overheard women complain about  
>  this, that after a certain age they feel like no one looks at them, like  
>  they are invisible.  But guys feel that way, too.  They just don't talk  
>  about it a lot.  
>     
>  That's something I appreciate about this list.  It's OK to mention these  
>  things.  
>     
>  \--Panther, who doesn't want to write another snippet today.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:04:58 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Mindy Allison <masquerade_98@yahoo.com>  
>  To: senad@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: Senad: gray hair and other signs of aging  
>     
>  >From Panther--  
>  >  
>  >After lurking for a while, I'm getting the impression that women are  
>  >a lot more outspoken about these topics than I was raised to believe.  
>  >Since you ladies seem to be in the majority here, I'll just have to  
>  >adjust.  
>  >  
>  >You seem to think that men age gracefully.  This is a misconception.  
>  >We may call it what it is -- bald is bald -- but that does not mean we  
>  >like it.  
>  >  
>  >I still think I look basically ok, but I don't get the 'looks' I once  
>  >got when I was 10 - 15 years younger.  
>  >  
>  >I feel so invisible at times.  I've overheard women complain about  
>  >this, that after a certain age they feel like no one looks at them,  
>  >like they are invisible.  But guys feel that way, too.  They just  
>  >don't talk about it a lot.  
>  >  
>  >That's something I appreciate about this list.  It's OK to mention  
>  >these things.  
>  >  
>  >\--Panther, who doesn't want to write another snippet today.  
>     
>     
>  <coming out of her lurk>  
>     
>  See, in society, it's Ok for a man to go bald, get grey hair, and those  
>  crow's feet around the eyes it's called maturing, and G-d knows plenty  
>  of actors eat it up, Sean Connery just to point out one guy who's like  
>  100 and still gorgeous...  
>     
>  Women on the other hand, are expected to have the same color hair, if  
>  their hair line recedes get the football helmet hair-don't, and crow's  
>  feet are a sign to see the plastic surgeon..  
>     
>  Yes, most men in society who are balding do not get the same look and  
>  gawks from women they used to, but hey, women are usually the ones on  
>  display....makeup, hair gunk that sorta stuff etc.  
>     
>  Also depends on how a man is balding...IMHO Mr. Bergman's receding hair  
>  line is MEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWW  well..ummm I really love the  
>  way a man looks with his hair like that...don't know why....it's a kink  
>  };)  
>     
>  So don't be discouraged....there are women out there that do think a  
>  little less hair is something to shake their groove thing  
>  at....ummm<blush>  
>     
>   Mindy  
>  <back to her lurk>  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:28:05 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: RE: WatchAD: American Thanksgiving  
>     
>  On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I feel a little lonely this year because my mom can't make it  
>  : tomorrow; she's out of the country at the moment.  But maybe I can  
>  : make a special dinner for me and my roommate.  He's not very close to  
>  : his family so maybe I can be a substitute.  He's really become *my*  
>  : family in the past couple of years.  
>  :  
>  : Here's wishing everyone a pleasant weekend and to my American  
>  : listsibs, Happy Thanksgiving!  
>     
>  I saw this and had to add my own two cents.  
>     
>  This time of year is pretty dreary for me.  I haven't spoken to my dad  
>  or brother much in the past 20 years.  My mom left us when I was young  
>  and then died later.  
>     
>  So Thanksgiving has long been a day to endure, a day on which, if I'm  
>  honest with myself, I just try to not miss my mother too much.  
>     
>  But this year, my roommate surprised me.  He cooked us a dinner, part  
>  traditional and part sort of new-agey -- a dinner like us, I guess.  
>     
>  Before my mom left, she used to have me and my brother make a list of  
>  things to be thankful for -- much as Wolf does now.  
>     
>  Well, for the first time in a long while, I feel like I have something  
>  to put on that list.  I thank whatever deity listens to these things for  
>  my roommate.  He has become everything to me -- a combination of a  
>  'mother' and a 'brother.' Definitely my best friend.  
>     
>  And I thank you WatchAD listsibs for listening to me.  
>     
>   --Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:48:20 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Gray Hair and Other Signs of Aging  
>     
>     On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, tracy l <canetr@hotmail.com> wrote:  
>     
>  : > I guess we're all adults, here, and everything, but some of you  
>  : > ladies are enough to make a guy go beet red, what with all your talk  
>  : > about where the gray hairs are showing up!  
>  :  
>  : <snip>  
>  :  
>  : Come on, Panther, lighten up and let your hair down <bg>.  This is a  
>  : very friendly list.  You can tell us anything you like.  No need to  
>  : fear a few gray hairs and a broader forehead.  Besides it probably  
>  : gives you a look of intelligence and maturity.  Wish we women could  
>  : age as gracefully.  
>  :  
>  : What about you, Wolf?  Getting a little gray and bare up there?  Don't  
>  : be shy.  Tell us.  
>     
>  Well, I guess I can join this thread, since you asked.  I'll just have  
>  to do my snippet later after I think it over. :)  
>     
>  I was almost as surprised as Panther was at some of the blunt discussion  
>  on this list.  I have known some women who've been willing to be this  
>  explicit in conversation around me, but not a lot.  It's really a breath  
>  of fresh air when I find this level of openness.  
>     
>  I'm closing in on 30 and starting to notice some changes, too.  I still  
>  have hair, lots of it actually.  I wear it to my shoulders but  
>  have been considering cutting it as I approach the big 3-0.  I wear it  
>  pulled back in a ponytail half the time, anyway, like a lot of guys do  
>  as they get a little older.  
>     
>  But the other day I got a bit of a shock.  You know how when you look in  
>  the mirror to shave [or whatever], you don't always really *see*  
>  yourself?  Well, I hadn't really been *looking* and then all of a sudden  
>  I was like startled to see a couple gray hairs at the edges of my  
>  hairline.  And my hairline is doing that inverted 'V' thing at the  
>  temples.  I didn't exactly freak or anything but I had one of those  
>  moments when I realized that after a few years of having a LOT of hair,  
>  I was coming up on losing it.  
>     
>  I don't feel too bad about it.  I think I look about as good as I  
>  ever did.  IF I ever did.  
>     
>  I don't know whether I date less because of I'm less interesting to look  
>  at or because I'm less interested in looking.  
>     
>  (But that's another topic, and I plan to write only one snippet, so I'll  
>  stop there.)  
>     
>  I can't really report any gray hairs in any .. um .. other places, yet.  
>  ;)  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:59:46 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: gray hair and other signs of aging  
>     
>  : Panther -  
>  :  
>  : ROTFL yet again!  ::turning to other female members of list::  Told  
>  : y'all I  could just about see their faces!!!!  <g>  
>  :  
>  : Seriously tho, just remember that with age comes wisdom, not to  
>  : mention greater sympathy, knowledge, and (::grinning already at  
>  : imagining Panther's  blush::) creative uses of such knowledge.  ;)  
>  :  Okay, okay, I said serious!  So here 'tis - if the gal you meet is  
>  : worth anything at all, she'll care more about the aforementioned  
>  : qualities than the amount of hair on your head, or the state of any  
>  : other part of your body.  What truly matters in a relationship doesn't  
>  : come from the physical but from the soul -love is blind.  Take it  
>  : from a helpless (but never *hope*less) romantic.  
>  : ;)  
>  :  
>  : Grace  
>  : (who knows the value of a good hug, true sympathy, and sincere love -  
>  : mainly from not having any of the three in great abundance. ::sad  
>  : smile::)  
>     
>  Grace,  
>     
>  This is wonderful to read.  
>     
>  I'm just hoping what you say is true -- that the person I might want to  
>  have a relationship with will value those qualities and look past the  
>  thinning hair, the loosening muscles, the lessening stamina, the  
>  slightly sluggish ... um ... circulation.  
>     
>  Not that I doubt your word entirely.  It's just that the person I'm  
>  thinking of pursuing actually came out and *said* quite plainly that as  
>  far as they were concerned, attraction required the physical component,  
>  not just the inner qualities.  At the time, they were talking about my  
>  interest in someone else, saying that I might feel less attracted if  
>  they weren't conventionally good-looking.  
>     
>  So the person didn't say it about *me* but I rather took it to heart.  
>     
>  I'm not sure that this person is quite as mature as they would need to  
>  be to deal with the aging issue. And I'm not so sure I want to find out.  
>  I'm not sure I want to go through any more emotional shocks in my life.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:23:21 EST  
>  From: Lorrellai@aol.com  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: gray hair and other signs of aging  
>     
>  Panther wrote:  
>     
>  <<Grace,  
>     
>  This is wonderful to read.  
>     
>  I'm just hoping what you say is true -- that the person I might want  
>  have a relationship with will value those qualities and look past the  
>  thinning hair, the loosening muscles, the lessening stamina, the  
>  slightly sluggish ... um ... circulation. >>  
>     
>  ::grinning *very* evilly (and entirely teasing)::  I ..... won't say it.  
>  ;)  
>     
>  <<  Not that I doubt your word entirely.  It's just that the person I'm  
>  thinking of pursuing actually came out and *said* quite plainly that as  
>  far as they were concerned attraction required the physical component,  
>  not just the inner qualities.  At the time, they were talking about my  
>  interest in someone else, saying that I might feel less attracted if  
>  they weren't conventionally good-looking.  >>  
>     
>  ::sigh::  Yeah, I can see where you're coming from ... I think, in all  
>  honesty, that yes physical attraction is a part of Attraction, but it's  
>  not always a given *what* is attractive to *whom*.  For instance, I  
>  can't see Brad Pitt as a heartthrob no matter *how* hard I try, even  
>  though a friend in CA went thru a huge phase with him as her ultimate  
>  dream-guy (e.g.: "Interview w/ a Vampire" - it was actually more fun to  
>  watch her reaction to Pitt than the movie itself!  <g>).  On the other  
>  hand, some men who are not what would be considered 'classically'  
>  handsome are drop-dead gorgeous to me (and other ladies) - Peter  
>  Wingfield of 'Highlander', Scott Glenn, Lance Hendriksen of 'Millenium',  
>  Anthony S. Head of BtVS, Callum Keith Rennie (sp?) and David Marciano  
>  from 'due South'.  And for me personally, I do tend to gravitate  
>  towards older men almost as a rule because they seem to be more  mature  
>  in many ways, more experienced and therefore understanding  about many  
>  things.  And in some ways, that quality also becomes part  of the  
>  physical attraction.  And also, so much is "to each his/her own" \- some  
>  men prefer blondes over brunettes, which means that said friend in LA  
>  got more attention from some guys than I did but that didn't mean I was  
>  unattractive in general.  
>     
>  << I'm not sure that this person is quite as mature as they would need  
>  to be to deal with the aging issue. And I'm not so sure I want to find  
>  out.  I'm not sure I want to go through any more emotional shocks in my  
>  life. >>  
>     
>  Again, I totally understand.  But I am once again going to throw in  
>  personal belief (albeit a lot more philosophical this time) and hope it  
>  helps.  I, as I said, am a romantic.  Part of that is because I truly  
>  believe that there are souls we have lived with before and are linked to  
>  on many different levels - one of which being Love.  When you find the  
>  right person, it will BE the right person: the one you are meant to be  
>  with.  And when that happens, every- thing will fall into place and this  
>  whole issue will be moot.  Life is full of chance, of risks and rewards  
>  \- and you can't have one without the other. Unless you try with this  
>  person, you'll never know - and if it doesn't work out, then that's not  
>  the person you're meant to be with.  But the most important thing, what  
>  it comes back to, is this: before you can be happy with anyone else, you  
>  must be happy with yourself.  Believe me - I'm *still* working on it!  
>  <g>  
>     
>  ::supportive hug::  
>     
>  Later!  
>     
>  Grace  
>     
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:40:02 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Gray Hair and Other Signs of Aging  
>     
>  : >On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : > You seem to think that men age gracefully.  This is a misconception.  
>  : > We may call it what it is -- bald is bald -- but that does not mean  
>  : > we like it.  I still think I look basically OK, but I don't get the  
>  : > 'looks' I once got when I was 10 - 15 years younger.  
>  : >  
>  : > I feel so invisible at times.  I've overheard women complain about  
>  : > this, that after a certain age they feel like no one looks at them,  
>  : > like they are invisible.  But guys feel that way, too.  They just  
>  : > don't talk about it a lot.  That's something I appreciate about this  
>  : > list.  It's OK to mention these things.  
>     
>  [snip  
>     
>  : On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Mindy Allison wrote:  
>  :  
>  : <coming out of her lurk>  
>  :  
>  : See, in society, it's OK for a man to go bald, get grey hair, and  
>  : those crow's feet around the eyes it's called maturing, and G-d knows  
>  : plenty of actors eat it up, Sean Connery just to point out one guy  
>  : who's like 100 and still gorgeous...  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : So don't be discouraged....there are women out there that do think a  
>  : little less hair is something to shake their groove thing at ...  
>  : ummm<blush>  
>     
>  I so wish you guys could talk to my roommate!  
>     
>  He's been really down on himself lately and won't talk about what's up  
>  with him.  He doesn't try to ask anybody out.  I think he's worried that  
>  just because he's over 30 or something that the women won't be  
>  interested.  
>     
>  And he won't talk to *me* about it, even though I'm, like, his best  
>  friend.  I think he's bought the social convention that guys just aren't  
>  supposed to talk to each other and it is driving me abso-freakin-lutely  
>  nuts!  
>     
>  I used to try to encourage him but the more I pushed the more he  
>  resisted, so I gave up on it.  
>     
>  He doesn't seem to realize that he's attractive.  I mean, *I* can see  
>  it; why can't *he*?  
>     
>  He may be about a decade older but he is way more attractive than I'll  
>  ever be. Age has so little to do with attractiveness!  
>     
>  And you are *so* right about Sean Connery!  He's like in his 60s or  
>  maybe he's 70?  And he's like droolworthy! <blush>  
>     
>  Brad Pitt should *wish* to look that good!  
>     
>  But I can't tell my roomie all this, or he'll get nervous about me, and  
>  then he'll clam up even more than he already does!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:29:08 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places [Was Gray Hair and Other  
>  Signs of Aging]  
>     
>  : On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Mindy Allison wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : So don't be discouraged....there are women out there that do think a  
>  : little less hair is something to shake their groove thing at ...  
>  : ummm<blush>  
>     
>  : On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I so wish you guys could talk to my roommate!  
>  :  
>  : He's been really down on himself lately and won't talk about what's up  
>  : with him.  He doesn't try to ask anybody out.  I think he's worried  
>  : that just because he's over 30 or something that the women won't be  
>  : interested.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  Well, Wolf, I don't know what to tell you about your roommate, since I'm  
>  having a different kind of problem. (Although it's sort of tangentially  
>  related.)  
>     
>  My roommate, who is ten times more energetic than I am, seems to always  
>  be pushing me to go out a lot, find a ladyfriend.  
>     
>  Well, there are a couple of problems with this for me.  
>     
>  First of all, I'm really sort of a loner.  I really like to be alone a  
>  lot of the time, stay home and catch up on my reading sometimes.  
>  Luckily my roommate has to work on his studies so even though he's a  
>  talker, I do get some quiet at home.  
>     
>  (Wolf, maybe this is the deal with *your* roommate ... but I don't  
>  know...)  
>     
>  And second, I guess I'll have to come clean here.  And I guess it's OK  
>  to mention this on this particular list.  
>     
>  Although I do find women attractive, at the moment I'm really more  
>  interested in my roommate.  
>     
>  I know -- it really sort of surprised me, too.  It kind of snuck up on  
>  Me over the past couple of years.  
>     
>  Looking back over my life, I realize now that I shouldn't be too  
>  surprised by this -- I guess it was always a possibility for me, just  
>  one I never really pursued.  
>     
>  But this guy!  Well, I don't want to get into the personal stuff right  
>  now ...  
>     
>  It's just that ...  
>     
>  Well, I have the feeling that women are a bit more mature than men are  
>  about accepting a less than perfect-looking lovers.  Well, maybe I'm  
>  over-generalizing, because apparently Wolf seemed to find at least one  
>  70-year-old guy droolworthy.  
>     
>  But I'm no Sean Connery.  
>     
>  And even though my roommate clearly likes me, he seems to do all of his  
>  'drooling' about women.  
>     
>  And figuring all this out at my age is pretty daunting.  
>     
>  I don't like to talk about this very much, and I don't think I could  
>  handle talking to him about it.  He may be open-minded about this stuff  
>  intellectually, but sometimes his intellect doesn't match up with his  
>  emotions.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:24:27 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places [Was Gray Hair and  
>  Other Signs of Aging]  
>     
>  : On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : And second, I guess I'll have to come clean here.  And : to mention this on this particular list.  
>  :  
>  : Although I do find women attractive, at the moment I'm really more  
>  : interested in my roommate.  
>  :  
>  : I know -- it really sort of surprised me, too.  It kind of snuck up on  
>  : me over the past couple of years.  
>   **  
>     
>  Oh, Panther, you are *so* not alone in this.  
>     
>  I've never really ...  
>     
>  Well, it's always been a lot easier for me to get close to women, so  
>  this has never really come up before.  
>     
>  But my roommate has become my family.  And as prickly as he can be at  
>  times and as different as we are, we really get along great, at least  
>  most of the time.  We do everything together ... except ...  
>     
>  Anyway, I recently realized that just like the guy on the show [see  
>  I*can* get this on topic <g>] -- I have fallen in love with my roommate.  
>     
>  I know that a lot of guys get the willies just *thinking* about  
>  the*idea* of 2 guys being in love, let alone expressing that love  
>  physically.  (To be honest, the idea makes me a little nervous, too.)  
>     
>  So I can just imagine what he'd feel if I mentioned feeling remotely  
>  like that.  I don't want him to feel nervous or bad that he doesn't  
>  return the feelings.  
>     
>  That's part of why I used to encourage him to go out on dates with some  
>  of the women we've met. He seems so lonely sometimes and I love him so  
>  much that I just want him to be happy.  
>     
>  And that's not as unselfish as it may sound.  When he's happy, he has  
>  this SMILE.  He has a smile so beautiful, so bright, so gleaming -- that  
>  just by smiling, he could obliterate night's darkness!  I would  
>  do*anything* to see that smile!  
>     
>  Well, anyway, Panther, I just wanted to let you know that you are not  
>  alone.  Wanted to offer my support.  Good luck.  
>     
>  I guess there are a lot of people out there [maybe here on this list]  
>  who have been in similar situations.  
>     
>  Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a same-  
>  sex friend?  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:56:43 +0000  
>  To: senad@list1.channel1.com  
>  From: Michelle <michelle@malotof.demon.co.uk>  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places [A little playful relief]  
>     
>  >I guess there are a lot of people out there [maybe here on this list]  
>  >who have been in similar situations.  
>  >  
>  >Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a  
>  >same-sex friend?  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>  >  
>  >  
>  >\--Wolf  
>  >  
>     
>  Okay Wolf, here's my contribution.  
>     
>  It's kind of an on-going experience actually, since she has no idea. A  
>  couple of years ago, when I was supposedly too young to know about such  
>  things, an acquaintance of mine suddenly became a very close friend  
>  through an English project we were assigned to do. We spent almost all  
>  of our days together, and quite a few nights as well, and discovered we  
>  had a lot in common. We were understanding each other on a level that  
>  was beyond friendship.  
>     
>  Anyway, last summer, my family and I moved to South Africa, leaving our  
>  friends behind. Despite the enormous phone bill, we called each other  
>  all the time (she's not on-line, so electronic communication was out of  
>  the question), wrote hundreds of letters, etc. Before I left, she handed  
>  me a tape that she'd made to keep me occupied on the plane. At the end,  
>  amidst much crying, she said she loved me.  
>     
>  When I came back to Britain this January, there were a great many hugs  
>  and "I love you's, and I started to realise that I wanted to read more  
>  into every little gesture she made, every word she said. She makes me  
>  feel really special, and she's practically part of my family. I think  
>  the final straw was when she told me about a guy she met at work, and I  
>  could actually feel myself getting jealous.  
>     
>  She knows I'm a little quirky, that I'm into slash, that I have a  
>  somewhat morbid outlook on life...I can tell her anything, except how I  
>  feel. If I do, our friendship's going to change.  
>     
>  Best of luck with your roommate, Wolf, (and Panther), I can understand  
>  your nervousness guys. This is the first time I can remember ever  
>  feeling this way, and I have no idea what's going to happen. It's a  
>  scary world out there.  
>     
>  \--  Michelle W.  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 2 Dec 98 19:33:19 -0700  
>  From: Ann  <friskybiz@earthlink.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  >I guess there are a lot of people out there [maybe here on this list]  
>  >who have been in similar situations.  
>  >  
>  >Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a  
>  >same-sex friend?  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>     
>  I did. :) I fell for a fan friend, and it turned out great. We took it  
>  slow, and I definitely recommend that. We went to dance clubs that were  
>  gay-friendly, then to gay dance clubs. They we both wanted to dance, so  
>  felt fine dancing with each other. It was fun to kind of 'play' at it,  
>  neither one making any big moves or demands, just testing out how it  
>  felt.  
>     
>  To make my long story short, we eased on into a kiss, and then more. :)  
>  And now we've been together (we date that from the first time we made  
>  love -- well, at that point, I'll admit, it was lust as well!) for over  
>  11 years.  
>     
>  Slow and steady wins the race. I'll be thinking good thoughts for you!  
>  Maybe a nice restaurant with a gay-friendly atmosphere, and a fair gay  
>  clientele?  
>     
>  Ann  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  From: Shan1007@aol.com  
>  Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:20:55 EST  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places [Was Gray Hair and  
>    Other Signs of Aging]  
>     
>  On Wed, Dec 2, 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  :Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a  
>  :same-sex friend?  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>     
>  Hey Wolf, just thought I'd answer ya.  I swore up and *down* that I was  
>  het, 1000%!  And then I got stuck in the hospital.  Not good man, lemme  
>  tell ya. The only perk (if any) was that I was away from my family.  I  
>  liked being alone, and often asked them to stay away.  <G> Okay, so I'm  
>  strange.  
>     
>  But I digress.  One day, this beautiful female walked by my door.  I  
>  swore she looked *exactly* like that chick from that space show.  I  
>  can't remember the character name, but people on the list call her 38 of  
>  D.  <g>  Anyway, she walked by my room, then a few minutes later she  
>  came back when she heard me growling at my lap top.  (Hey, I have a room  
>  reserved at the hospital, so of course they let me have my LT, complete  
>  with modem.)  Now, before I go any further, ya gotta understand that I  
>  *hate* meeting new people.  I tend to like being by myself, and rarely  
>  do I make an attempt at starting a conversation, but this lady was  
>  different.  I didn't mind her there at all.  <sigh>  I should have known  
>  it was the beginning of the end.  That was almost two months ago.  
>     
>  We became fast friends, and when she found out that my at-the-time- now-  
>  *EX*-boyfriend hit me, she went ballistic.  I felt sorry for Micky.  
>  NOT! Anyway, Kel and I are having a grand time.  I'm hitting some rough  
>  spots now, and she's helping me through them.  Oh yeah, and she moved in  
>  with me over Halloween weekend.  <g>  
>     
>  Wolf, trust me.  It can happen.  <looking at Kel>  I'm living proof!  
>     
>     
>  Tigershan  
>     
>  Grinning toothily  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thurs, 3 Dec 1998 17:33:46 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places [Was Gray Hair and  
>             Other Signs of Aging]  
>     
>  : On Wed, Dec 2, 1998, Wolf wrote  
>  :  
>  : : Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a  
>  : : same-sex friend?  
>     
>  :  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>     
>  : On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 Shan1007@aol.com wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : Anyway, Kel and I are having a grand time.  I'm hitting some rough  
>  : spots now, and she's helping me through them.  Oh yeah, and she moved  
>  : in with me over Halloween weekend.  <g>  
>  :  
>  : Wolf, trust me.  It can happen.  <looking at Kel>  I'm living proof!  
>     
>  Just wanted to thank you for attesting to the possibilities.  And to  
>  offer congratulations on your new relationship!  Good luck, guys!  
>  And thanks for opening up.  It helps.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:43:39 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Mindy <masquerade_98@yahoo.com>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  > Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a  
>  > same-sex friend?  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>  >  
>  > \--Wolf  
>  >  
>     
>  <coming out of lurk yet again for a furry critter...>  
>     
>  I thought I was het, well, it was when I was 15 so I guess I wasn't so  
>  sure really...but I was dammit :).  
>     
>  I fell in love with my very best friend.  She was wonderful, strange  
>  thing about it is...we were roomies in the dorm at school. (BOARDING  
>  SCHOOL RULES BTW };)  
>     
>  We did everything together and had a grand ole time, till someone  
>  snuck in some beer....well, teenagers being what they are, we (about  
>  10 of us) ended up playing Truth or Dare...and things got out of hand,  
>  and we ended up in bed together...it was wondrous...till the morning  
>  when sobriety set in...  we freaked out thinking one was gonna haul  
>  off and deck the other...we sat down and talked about it and ended up  
>  having a 4 year relationship :)  
>     
>  <back into lurk ...>  
>     
>  Mindy (who can't resist small furry cutey animals };)  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thurs, 03 Dec 1998 17:59:38 PST  
>  From: "tracy l" <canetr@hotmail.com>  
>  To: Watchman@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Watchman: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  Panther wrote:  
>     
>  <snip>  
>     
>  > You seem to think that men age gracefully.  This is a  
>  >misconception.  We may call it what it is -- bald is bald -- but  
>  >that does not mean we like it.  I still think I look basically ok,  
>  >but I don't get the 'looks' I once got when I was 10 - 15 years  
>  >younger  
>     
>     
>  Hi Panther,  
>     
>  Sorry, it's taken so long for me to write back.  I came down with a  
>  nasty cold and just felt well enough to read the over 400 messages in  
>  my  Inbox.  
>     
>  External looks are not that important if you care for someone.  I can  
>  relay a personal experience.  Many years ago, I met this young man who  
>  was not what most people would call "handsome".  He had a birth defect  
>  and a wandering eye.  But when he smiled, his whole face lit up.  And  
>  he  had a generous nature, was considerate and had a great sense of  
>  humor.   He was easy to talk to.  Soon, I didn't even notice his face  
>  but looked  at the whole person.  And the whole person was beautiful.  
>     
>  I think that when you get to know and like a person, you tend to  
>  overlook the physical imperfections.  
>     
>  I plan to attend this rally for our favorite show, the Watchman.  Why  
>  don't you and your roommate come too?  It should be a lot of fun. How  
>  about it?  
>     
>  Tracy  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thurs, 3 Dec 1998, 9:05 p.m.  
>     
>  "Aawww, maan!"  
>     
>  "Whatsa matter, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, Jim, I just got an e-mail from an 'e-pal' of mine.  Seems there's  
>  been a big hassle among the Watchman fans.  I *hate* it when people who  
>  are usually so supportive of each other start sniping at one another.  I  
>  know it has to do with stress and frustration because they're having so  
>  much trouble getting the show back on the air, but ..."  
>     
>  "Are they still planning on having that secret rally in LA in January?"  
>     
>  "Yeah.  ... Hey! How'd *you* know about that?  Only the fans on the net  
>  are supposed to be in on that."  
>     
>  "Well ... let's just say that I have my sources... And besides, how  
>  did*you* know?"  
>     
>  "Umm.. Well .. um .. my e-pal belongs to this discussion list and she  
>  tells me stuff."  
>     
>  "Uhh, what discussion list?"  
>     
>  "You know, most fandoms have discussion lists through e-mail where fans  
>  can discuss the TV shows and the fanfiction that people write. My .. um  
>  .. friend belongs.  I get to find out stuff."  
>     
>  "Are you thinking of joining any of these lists, Chief, like say, for  
>  The X-Files or The Watchman"?  
>     
>  "Um .. maybe .. when I get the time, Jim.  Why?"  
>     
>  "Well, maybe you can find out how to join one and you could maybe keep  
>  me filled in."  
>     
>  "I didn't know you were interested in this stuff, Jim."  
>     
>  "Well, I wasn't really, until I overheard a couple of the secretaries  
>  discussing some of the fanfiction they'd read.  It sounds like some of  
>  the fan writers do a good job.  So I just thought ..."  
>     
>  "What stories did they mention, Jim?"  
>     
>  "I can't remember the titles or anything, Chief.  I just remember some  
>  of the more interesting plot points and thought maybe there was some  
>  place to find these stories.  The secretaries mentioned things called  
>  zines."  
>     
>  "You know, some of those stories are a little ... um ... risque'."  
>     
>  "Risque' Chief?"  
>     
>  "You know, like Mulder doing Scully.  Pretty explicit stuff."  
>     
>  "Yeah, one of the stories I heard somebody talking about sounded a  
>  little like that.  I even heard about .. no, you won't believe it..."  
>     
>  "Believe what, Jim?"  
>     
>  "There are even stories about Mulder and Krycek.  Can you believe that?"  
>     
>  "Well, Krycek *did* kiss Mulder last season, Jim.  I guess some writers  
>  just sort of ran with it."  
>     
>  "Doesn't the idea .. sort of .. bother you?"  
>     
>  "Bother me?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, you know, 2 guys?"  
>     
>  "Me?!  No way, man!  Though I sort of think Skinner would be a better  
>  choice for Mulder, don't you?"  
>     
>  "But ...  what about Scully?!"  
>     
>  "Well, Skinner would be a good choice for Scully, too, come to think of  
>  it.  
>     
>  "In fact, I heard about a story in which Scully and Mulder do Skinner  
>  in Scully's kitchen."  
>     
>  "Howcome you never told me about any of this stuff before, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, I didn't think you'd be interested, Jim. I've heard it  
>  gets*really* explicit and sometimes a little .. um .. kinky.  And you  
>  don't  
>  really like it when I talk about .. um .. sex and stuff --"  
>     
>  "That's not it!  I just don't like you leering at me when I go on dates.  
>  I don't give a rat's ass about what you *read*!"  
>     
>  "OK, chill!  I didn't say *I* read it ... well, OK, I've read a couple  
>  of the stories.  My .. um friend sent them to me."  
>     
>  "Well, maybe you could get your .. friend .. to recommend a couple of  
>  Watchman stories"  
>     
>  "I'll ask her next time I do my e-mail -- OK?  What kind do you want?"  
>     
>  "Something with a plot and maybe some humor. -- I don't know, whatever's  
>  good."  
>     
>  "How about a little romance, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Huh?  What?  Oh.  'Watchman' romance, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Interested, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Sure, why not."  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:17:46 -0800  
>  From: "GRWC" <ladyjayne@looksmart.com>  
>  Subject: Love in unexpected places  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>     
>  Usually by the time I've thought through my position on something, the  
>  thread has long since died.  It's true in this case, too, but I suspect  
>  the question is still of interest to Wolf, who posed it, and to Panther,  
>  who's in a similar situation.  And besides, what I have to say is a  
>  little different.  
>     
>  Love in unexpected places?  A bit over two years ago, my mother flew to  
>  Florida to take are of Sarah, a friend with cancer, and fell in love.  
>  Several months later, Sarah died, so you can imagine my mom went through  
>  a  mourning period.  My dad, mostly happily married to Mom for over 25  
>  years, was also saddened by this turn of events.  When they announced  
>  their separation, my sis *said* she was fine, but for a while there, she  
>  was vomiting every time she had to leave the house.  (I was the only one  
>  not surprised and/or distressed.)  
>     
>  Sarah was not close to her family, didn't really have anyone in her  
>  life, but she died knowing someone loved her.  As for the rest of us --  
>  we go on.  My sis stopped vomiting and got a promotion.  Mom and Dad are  
>  still friends; ironically, Mom has cancer now and  Dad takes care of her  
>  when she has chemo treatments.  
>     
>  What made Mom's coming out hard on so many people is that she grew up  
>  when people simply didn't question their sexuality unless they couldn't  
>  avoid it.  The Watchman's dad (to bring this semi-on-topic :) spoke of  
>  how he worked hard because "that's what men did."  My mom did the female  
>  version.  When she finally had to deal with it, she already had a  
>  relationship, and found herself caught between loyalty to herself and  
>  loyalty to the man who had been so important in her life.  
>     
>  Wolf, Panther, you are fortunate enough to be facing this when you and  
>  your roommates are free to do what you have to for your own happiness  
>  without hurting anyone else.  This time of your lives won't last  
>  forever.  
>     
>  Your roommates could find other loves, but there's even worse (TPTB  
>  forbid).  I don't remember if you guys said what your rommates each did  
>  for a living (itchy deleted finger), but even if they are not in high-  
>  risk professions, they or you could get run over by a beer truck  
>  tomorrow and die with too much left unsaid.  
>     
>  Panther, Wolf -- you are free as my mom was not.  
>     
>  Take a chance on love.  
>     
>  (Guess I owe an ObWatchAD, huh?)  
>     
>     
>  \--Gina Collum  
>  Keeper of Joe's table legs  
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:45:04 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  : On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : Although I do find women attractive, at the moment I'm really more  
>  : interested in my roommate.  
>     
>  : I know -- it really sort of surprised me, too.  It kind of snuck up on  
>  : me over the past couple of years.  
>  :  
>  : ***  
>  ::  
>  : On Thurs, 3 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Oh, Panther, you are *so* not alone in this.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : Anyway, I recently realized that just like the guy on the show [see I  
>  : *can* get this on topic <g>] -- I have fallen in love with my   :  
>  roommate.  
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : I guess there are a lot of people out there [maybe here on this list]  
>  : who have been in similar situations.  
>  :  
>  : Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a same-  
>  : sex friend?  
>     
>  :  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>     
>  After reading the wonderfully positive stories about listsibs finding  
>  Ms. Right or Ms. Maybe, I started to feel wistful.  
>     
>  My few, fleeting attempts at this were not exactly *failures* in any  
>  absolute sense, but they were not quite the success stories described so  
>  far.  
>     
>  I was in my 20s when I realized that I was just plain head over heels  
>  with a high school buddy's girlfriend (who was on the verge of breaking  
>  up with said buddy). I eventually did tell her how I felt and we flirted  
>  and cuddled but we were infinitely shy and nervous about the whole deal.  
>     
>  My life was like a blues song.  I would occasionally try to stop the  
>  pain with alcohol.  (Wrote some bad stories and poetry [But that's OK  
>  \-- any writing is practice, right?])  
>     
>  She vacillated between writing letters to suggest that we live together  
>  As lovers and then skittering away.  Eventually she married some guy and  
>  Moved out of the state.  
>     
>  I was aware that I was probably bi, but I was so fragile that I  
>  eventually just squashed that part of myself down for nearly 20 years.  
>     
>  BUT  
>     
>  Wolf, Panther --  
>     
>  If I could go back, I would NEVER have avoided telling her.  I would  
>  never have missed out on the opportunity to experience what we did  
>  experience and to learn as much as I could from the life I was living.  
>     
>  Isn't the purpose of life to learn all we can while we're here?  
>     
>  Well, for me it is.  
>     
>  And for that reason, if I could go back, I would NEVER have squashed  
>  down this part of who I am.  It didn't 'fix' anything, it didn't make  
>  anything better.  Suppressing who I am has only led to bouts of  
>  Depression.  
>     
>  So guys, even though my experience was not as positive, I think the  
>  moral is the same -- don't let anything get in the way of expressing the  
>  love you feel.  
>     
>  You may not know how it's going to turn out, but we never do, anyway.  
>  Your friend could say no, but he could say maybe or even yes.  If you  
>  don't ask, he may say nothing at all.  
>     
>  And then you'll know nothing at all.  
>     
>  \--Marmot  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:46:07 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  I decided to take this off-list because I just started feeling like  
>  discussing my feelings for my roommate was just getting too personal for  
>  a semi-public forum.  
>     
>  And you seem to be about the same age as my roommate so you might be  
>  able to ... I don't know ... give me advice or insight or something.  
>     
>  The ladies on the list are pretty much telling me to 'go for it,' to  
>  just tell him.  They seem to be so optimistic, so sure that it will all  
>  turn out all right.  
>     
>  But my life, my experiences just don't lead me to have such a rosy  
>  outlook.  The important people in my life have all left me and I can't  
>  help being afraid that he'll be next -- especially if I spook him.  
>     
>  It's getting so I'm starting to close down around him.  I snap at him  
>  more and try to take more time off to go off by myself.  I feel like  
>  he's too close but not close enough.  
>     
>  Are you having the same problem or have you started to work this out  
>  with your friend?  
>     
>  Keep me updated.  Maybe if you work this out, you can give me pointers  
>  \-- guy-to-guy.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \-- Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:10:27 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A suggestion [was Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places]  
>     
>  On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : It's getting so I'm starting to close down around him.  I snap at him  
>  : more and try to take more time off to go off by myself.  I feel like  
>  : he's too close but not close enough.  
>  :  
>  : Are you having the same problem or have you started to work this out  
>  : with your friend?  
>  :  
>  : Keep me updated.  Maybe if you work this out, you can give me pointers  
>  : -- guy-to-guy.  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  Sorry, about not getting back to you sooner, man, but RL has a way of  
>  grabbing my attention.  
>     
>  I do know what you mean here, about feeling 'too close but not close  
>  enough.' Just close enough to feel the heat but not close enough to  
>  release it.  
>     
>  There are times when I just know I'm going to spontaneously combust!  
>     
>  At the moment, I don't have anything sage to tell you, no real advice.  
>     
>  But I was wondering.  You know that rally in January to get The Watchman  
>  back on the air?  
>     
>  I'm thinking of trying to get my roommate to go to that.  He likes the  
>  show and might be willing.  
>     
>  Are you and your roomie considering making the trip?  If so, maybe the 4  
>  of us could get together.  Maybe we could help each other out, give each  
>  other's friends a clue.  What do you think?  
>     
>  We've got a month to plan this so you have time to think it over.  
>  Let me know.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:20:58 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  : On Wed, Dec 2, 1998, Wolf wrote  
>  :  
>  :: :Anyone else out there, formerly het [in behavior] who fell for a  
>  :: same-sex friend?  
>     
>  ::  What did you do?  How did it turn out?  
>  :  
>     
>  On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 Shan wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : Wolf, trust me.  It can happen.  <looking at Kel>  I'm living proof!  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  :  
>  :   On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Ann wrote:  
>  :  
>  : I did. :) I fell for a fan friend, and it turned out great. We took it  
>  : slow, and I definitely recommend that.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  :  It was fun to kind of 'play' at it, neither one making any big moves  
>  : or demands, just testing out how it felt.  
>  :  
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : Slow and steady wins the race. I'll be thinking good thoughts for you!  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  :    On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Mindy wrote:  
>  :  
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  :  ended up playing Truth or Dare...and things got out of hand, and we  
>  : ended up in bed together...it was wondrous...till the morning when  
>  : sobriety set in...  we freaked out thinking one was gonna haul off and  
>  : deck the other...we sat down and talked about it and ended up having a  
>  : 4 year relationship :)  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  :    On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Michelle wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Okay Wolf, here's my contribution. It's kind of an on-going experience  
>  : actually, since she has no idea.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : and I started to realise that I wanted to read more into every little  
>  : gesture she made, every word she said. She makes me feel really  
>  : special, and she's practically part of my family.  I think the final  
>  : straw was when she told me about a guy she met at work, and I could  
>  : actually feel myself getting jealous.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : I can tell her anything, except how I feel. If I do, our friendship's  
>  : going to change.  
>  :  
>  : Best of luck with your roommate, Wolf, (and Panther), I can understand  
>  : your nervousness guys. This is the first time I can remember ever  
>  : feeling this way, and I have no idea what's going to happen. It's a  
>  : scary world out there.  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  : On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Marmot wrote:  
>     
>  : After reading the wonderfully positive stories about listsibs finding  
>  : Ms. Right or Ms. Maybe, I started to feel wistful.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : She vacillated between writing letters to suggest that we live  
>  : together as lovers and then skittering away.  Eventually she married  
>  : some guy and moved out of the state.  
>  :  
>  : I was aware that I was probably bi, but I was so fragile that I  
>  : eventually just squashed that part of myself down for nearly 20 years.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : So guys, even though my experience was not as positive, I think the  
>  : moral is the same \-- don't let anything get in the way of expressing  
>  : the love you feel.  
>  :  
>  : You may not know how it's going to turn out, but we never do, anyway.  
>  : Your friend could say no, but he could say maybe or even yes.  If you  
>  : don't ask, he may say nothing at all.  
>  :  
>  : And then you'll know nothing at all.  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Listsibs,  
>     
>  (I hope I snipped enough of these posts for the dictates of netiquette.)  
>     
>  Anyway, I just wanted to write and say thank you to all of you -- Shan,  
>  Ann, Mindy, Michelle, and Marmot -- for offering your stories in support  
>  of those of us who love in secret.  
>     
>  It takes a lot of guts to reveal so much, more guts than I have  
>  sometimes.  
>     
>  I'm wondering if this is a gender thing.  Is it easier for women to talk  
>  about these things than it is for men?  
>     
>  Or is it a generational thing?  Is it easier for those under 30 than for  
>  those over 30?  
>     
>  Or is it just more difficult for me?  
>     
>  Because even though I've faced a lot of threatening things in my life,  
>  when in the military and while on the job, this one is one of the most  
>  threatening.  
>     
>  I'm a lot like Joe on The Watchman (to bring this on-topic [I hated  
>  writing the snippet]).  He seems to be the 'strong silent type,' sort of  
>  a Gary Cooper kind of guy.  That's the romanticized version.  Really  
>  he's the stoic, repressed type.  Intelligent but non-verbal.  Or not-  
>  easily-verbal.  That's me.  
>     
>  I also want to thank Wolf for opening up on this list, also.  At least I  
>  know there's another *guy* out there going through this and willing to  
>  open up.  It helps a lot.  
>     
>  It's hard enough, at my age, to realize that my sexual preferences are  
>  not what I once thought they were, but when most of the testifying here  
>  has been done by women, I started to wonder about my masculinity, as  
>  well.  So it's comforting to hear from the estrogen-deficient :)  
>     
>  Again, thanks guys.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Sat, 5 Dec 1998, 7:10 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim!"  
>     
>  "Yeah, Chief?"  
>     
>  "You know the rally for 'The Watchman' we were talking about the other  
>  day?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, the 'secret' rally in January that supposedly only people on the  
>  net know about, Chief?"  
>     
>  "I *told* you, I got the information from an e-mail friend.  Anyway, she  
>  was wondering whether I was going to go.  What do you think, Jim, do you  
>  want to go?  Might be fun."  
>     
>  "You want to travel the length of 3 states, one of which is really the  
>  length of two of ours, in the middle of fuckin' winter, to go to a one-  
>  day event for a *TV show*? Are you out of your mind, Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "But Jim! I know how much you identify with the guys on that show.  
>  And there is the possibility that the show might be renewed for  
>  another season if we show enough support for it. Besides, we haven't had  
>  a vacation in a long time.  We could spend a few extra days down there  
>  in California. Winter in LA is a bit warmer than winter in Cascade, Jim.  
>  And it just might be *fun*!  You remember fun, eh Jim?"  
>     
>  "Well, I'll think about it."  
>     
>  "Ah, Jim! that's great, man!  Maybe we can meet my e-mail friend down  
>  there!"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, do you even really *know* her?  How do you know it's safe to  
>  meet her?  You don't even know she is who she says she is.  I mean, it's  
>  one thing to get stories from her or TV show gossip, but ..."  
>     
>  "Well, Jim, *I* am on e-mail and I'm a good guy.  And sometimes you can  
>  just tell that someone is OK.  Besides we'll be with about 200 other  
>  fans in public.  If we meet her and get a bad feeling, we can always  
>  just take off."  
>     
>  "I guess... So why do you want to meet her in the first place?  You  
>  aren't having some sort of on-line romance or anything, are you?"  
>     
>  "Well, no actually.  We just 'talk.' About stuff.  She's been confiding  
>  in me about her feelings for her best friend.  She's worried they won't  
>  be reciprocated. I just offer her support, sometimes."  
>     
>  "That's nice of you, Chief.  You sure that's all you offer her?"  
>     
>  "Look, Ellison, I *told* you there wasn't anything else to it.  Besides,  
>  where do you get off criticizing my social life?!  I'm a sentient adult.  
>  I can make my own decisions and my own friends.  You are acting way too  
>  protective for the situation, Jim.  You aren't my father, big brother or  
>  ... or ..."  
>     
>  "Or what?"  
>     
>  "Well, the last person I saw get into all this much insinuation was the  
>  girlfriend of one of my students -- Now *there* was an immature couple,  
>  if ever I saw one!"  
>     
>  "You're saying I'm acting like somebody's jealous *girlfriend,* Chief?!"  
>     
>  "Somebody's immature, 18-year-old, jealous girlfriend."  
>     
>  "Look, Sandburg, no need to get insulting.  I'm just ... I don't know ..  
>  I mean ... never mind.  If you say there's no romance, there's no  
>  romance.  I'm sorry.  It's just that the whole anonymous friendships on  
>  the net thing makes me nervous.  It can be perfectly OK, I know.  But  
>  there are occasional risks..."  
>     
>  "Yeah, Jim, I know.  If it makes you feel better, I use an alias and an  
>  account not based at school so no one can easily look up my identity.  
>  It's a precaution."  
>     
>  "Well, OK, then.  So your friend suffers from unrequited love?  What  
>  kind of advice do you give her?"  
>     
>  "I really don't know what advice *to* give her, Jim."  
>     
>  "What?  You've never been in that situation?"  
>     
>  "Man, are you kidding?  I'm ... uh ... let's just say that I've  
>  definitely been in her situation.  ... But I SO haven't  
>  figured out what to do about being *in* that situation.  How about you?  
>  You know what to do?  What I could tell her?"  
>     
>  "'Fraid not, Chief.  Nothing sage to say, here."  
>     
>  "It sucks, man."  
>     
>  "Tell me."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:54:23 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: The Rally in January  
>     
>  Listsibs,  
>     
>  I'm trying to talk my roommate into going to the Watchman LA rally in  
>  January. I don't know, yet, whether we actually will go but if we do, I  
>  was thinking maybe we could carpool with someone.  
>     
>  So are there other listsibs from the Vancouver/northern Washington area  
>  who might want to share a vehicle?  
>     
>  If so, please e-mail me off list at wolf@washnet.com  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:32:40 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Follow-up question  
>     
>   On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : If you and your roommate and Wolf and his friend can get along so  
>  : well, then maybe there's hope for me, too.  
>  :  
>  : Hey, Wolf, keep us updated on your progress talking to your friend.  
>  : Maybe if you can get talking with him, I can give it a try, too.  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf!  
>     
>  You never got back to us on this.  Any good news?  
>     
>  Don't mean to pry ... well, not too much, anyway.  
>     
>  ;)  
>     
>  Have you had "that talk" with your roomie, yet?  If so, what happened?  
>     
>  If not, have you gotten any inkling at all about how he might respond?  
>     
>  You don't have to go into excruciating *details* or anything.  Just ...  
>  well ... did you *talk*?  
>     
>  Inquiring [read 'nosy'] minds WANT TO KNOW.  
>     
>  Waiting to hear from you.  
>     
>  \--Marmot  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:38:40 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: So then why ... [was When did *you*?]  
>     
>  : On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : I love the guy, but sometimes he just seems so immature.  
>     
>  If he's so immature, why do you love him?  What is it about him that  
>  keeps you there?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:57:28 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: The Rally in January  
>     
>  On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I'm trying to talk my roommate into going to the Watchman LA rally in  
>  : January. I don't know yet, whether we actually will go but if we do, I  
>  : was thinking maybe we could carpool with someone.  
>  :  
>  : So are there other listsibs from the Vancouver/northern Washington  
>  : area who might want to share a vehicle?  
>  :  
>  : If so, please e-mail me off list at wolf@washnet.com  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  My roommate and I live in this general region and have talked about  
>  going, but I'm not so sure I can.  Or want to.  
>     
>  I can never predict my work schedule and it's about a 2-3 day drive one  
>  way for a one-day event, so I'm not sure that I can really afford to do  
>  that.  
>     
>  My roommate suggested we could turn it into a vacation and God knows, we  
>  could use one!  But I don't know...  
>     
>  The thing that really bugs me is that he is really hot on meeting this  
>  girl down there in LA, and I just feel like I'd be in the way. Besides,  
>  it's starting to hurt when I see him flirting with women.  He claims  
>  they're 'just friends,' but it still bugs me...  But if we end up going,  
>  I'll let you know and maybe we *can* carpool.  It'll help on the  
>  expenses and it'll be great to share the driving, so we're not so  
>  exhausted when we get there.  
>     
>  When you get there, where were you planning on staying?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:26:57 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: The Rally in January  
>     
>  Wolf's post asking for car-poolers reminds me of another consideration:  
>  Where will everybody be staying once we get to LA?  
>     
>  I don't know whether I'll be going.  I might not, due to personal  
>  reasons.  But I haven't decided, yet.  
>     
>  But to help me with my decision, I need to know where everybody's going  
>  to be staying in LA.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:43:34 PST  
>  From: "tracy l" <canetr@hotmail.com>  
>  To: WatchmAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: The Rally in January  
>     
>  Panther wrote:  
>     
>  >Where will everybody be staying once we get to LA?  
>  >  
>  >I don't know whether I'll be going.  I might not, due to personal  
>  >reasons.  But I haven't decided, yet.  
>  >  
>  >But to help me with my decision, I need to know where everybody's  
>  >going to be staying in LA.  
>     
>  Hi Panther,  
>     
>  Gee, it sure would be nice if you and your roomie could come.  Show  
>  support for our favorite show.  Rumor has it that the show is in trouble  
>  because the wrong demographics are watching, namely, women.  To have men  
>  in the 18-49 bracket show up would be a major boost.  
>     
>  I'm staying at the main hotel but there are plenty of other  
>  accommodations nearby, including floor space at local listsibs' home.  
>  There is a website set up to help us and match people who need and have  
>  accommodations.  
>     
>  I would love to meet you and your roomie.  Maybe if you want, I can VERY  
>  discreetly try to find out how he feels about you.  Just a thought.  
>     
>  Hope to see you at the rally.  
>     
>  Tracy  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:54:03 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: alyjude@webtv.net <allison>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD The Rally  
>     
>  Oh, Panther?  Please feel free to stay with me!  I'm having a Watchman  
>  slumber party and I just have this feeling that you will *fit* right  
>  in..so come on down!  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:35:25 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.net  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: The Rally and Slumber Party  
>     
>   On Sun, 7 Dec 1998, allison wrote:  
>     
>  : Oh, Panther?  Please feel free to stay with me!  I'm having a Watchman  
>  : Slumber party and I just have this feeling that you will *fit* right  
>  : in .. so come on down!  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  I truly appreciate this offer.  I don't know yet whether I'm coming, but  
>  if I am, I'd like to stay there.  You've been very supportive of me in  
>  earlier posts and e-mails, so I think we'll get along fine.  Do you have  
>  room for both of us?  
>     
>  And there might be another problem ... maybe not...  
>     
>  I know that most of the list members are women and you said that you had  
>  room for 12 people.  How ... shy ... are the people who are staying with  
>  you?  Will they care that there might be a couple of guys at this  
>  'slumber party' of yours?  
>     
>  I ask because frankly I've never been to a slumber party and I've  
>  overheard some stories at work about some pretty wild stuff.  What goes  
>  on at a slumber party and especially a Watchman slumber party?  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:06:26 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: The Rally  
>     
>  Dear Panther:  
>     
>  There is definitely room for both you and your roomie. As to what we do  
>  at a Slumber Party?  
>     
>  Well, naturally we will be watching our favorite show, The Watchman. And  
>  the usual popcorn poping, soda guzzling and story swapping.  It would be  
>  very interesting to have guys participate and maybe we can put a dent in  
>  that saying,  Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars. I'm betting we  
>  will all have a great deal in common and will get along great!  
>     
>  Now I understand the sleeping arrangements could be a little  
>  tricky....but I'm more than willing to let you and your roomie take the  
>  other bedroom...that is, if you don't mind sharing a bed?  It's a king.  
>  There are also two bathrooms.  Just one thing tho'.  Hope neither of you  
>  smoke?  It is a non-smoking house and I also have two dogs. Not allergic  
>  are you?  
>     
>  Well, look forward to having you, here's hoping and I have my fingers  
>  crossed.  We all gotta get together on this thing if our show is going  
>  to be renewed for the 1999/2000 season.  Wow, 2000!  
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:17:11 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Re: The Rally  
>     
>  To Panther:  
>     
>  PS:  We only rip the clothes off of guys on alternate Wednesday's and we  
>  are thinking of switching this practice to Monday's at 9:00!  You and  
>  your roomie will be perfectly safe! <G>  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:55:43 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To:  allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Subject: Re: The Rally  
>     
>   On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Allison wrote:  
>     
>  : Dear Panther:  
>  :  
>  : There is definitely room for both you and your roomie. As to what we  
>  : do at a Slumber Party?  
>  :  
>  : Well, naturally we will be watching our favorite show, The Watchman.  
>  : And the usual popcorn popping, soda guzzling and story swapping.  It  
>  : would be very interesting to have guys participate and maybe we can  
>  : put a dent in that saying, Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars.  
>  : I'm betting we will all have a great deal in common and will get  
>  : along great!  
>     
>  This sounds like a good time.  It'll be interesting, to say the least.  
>  My roommate is likely to take notes for a paper on this, though.  Be  
>  warned. ;)  
>     
>  : Now I understand the sleeping arrangements could be a little  
>  : tricky....but I'm more than willing to let you and your roomie take  
>  : the other bedroom...that is, if you don't mind sharing a bed?  It's a  
>  : king.  
>     
>  If there are going to be so many people, I'd hate to take a whole  
>  bedroom for just the 2 of us.  We could just sleep on the living room  
>  floor in our sleeping bags.  But if the segregation will help people  
>  feel more comfortable, then thanks.  
>     
>  As for sharing the bed, I'm sure it'll be OK.  We've shared close  
>  quarters before.  So I'm sure we can handle it.  
>     
>  : There are also two bathrooms.  Just one thing tho'.  Hope neither of  
>  : you smoke?  It is a non-smoking house and I also have two dogs. Not  
>  : allergic are you?  
>     
>  I'm glad to hear it's a non-smoking house.  I have a rather sensitive  
>  nose when it comes to certain pollutants.  I also seem to be allergic to  
>  flowering plants.  I don't think I'm allergic to cats or dogs, though.  
>     
>  Again, thanks for putting us up.  I really appreciate it.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:22:07 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.net  
>  Subject: The Rally  
>     
>  To Panther:  
>     
>  Hey, no problem!  Look forward to having you both.  I too, have a  
>  sensitive nose and use only organic cleansers, detergent and shampoos,  
>  even on the dogs!  
>     
>  See you in January!  
>     
>  allison, may the Watchman....watch over you.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:36:20 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To:  allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:   Subject: The Rally  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  I got your name and addy from the bulletin board, while looking for  
>  places to stay in LA if I get to go to the Rally.  It says you have room  
>  for about 12 and your place is non-smoking.  
>     
>  You seemed really open and friendly in your posts on the list, so I felt  
>  comfortable approaching you.  
>     
>  I don't know whether my roommate will be going, but *I* would like to go  
>  and need a place to stay.  Can you set aside places for 2 of us?  Is  
>  there still room? When's the latest I need to let you know whether it  
>  will be one or two of us?  
>     
>  I really hope you still have room and are willing to take us.  
>     
>  Thank you,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:42:21 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: The Rally in January  
>     
>  Hey, man, I'm sorry to do this to you, after making a big deal here and  
>  on the list asking for a carpool, but I'm going to just opt out.  
>     
>  I want to go and all, but I don't want to hang you guys up if we don't  
>  end up going at the last minute.  
>     
>  It's just that my roommate won't commit.  He keeps coming up with a  
>  bunch of excuses and he's beginning to piss me off.  
>     
>  Not because of the excuses, so much.  I mean, I know he has to work and  
>  might not able to swing the days off.  A lot of people on the list are  
>  going through that hassle -- that and not having any money...  It's just  
>  that he's being a real pain in the ass, lately, so I'm not so sure  
>  I*want* to go with him at the moment.  He just blows up at every little  
>  picky thing and ... well, he's just not being very easy to be with right  
>  now.  
>     
>  His crankiness comes and goes, so in the long run, I know it'll be OK.  
>  But I can't really guarantee that I'll be able to stand being cooped up  
>  in a car with him for 3 days straight. Anyway, carpooling seemed like a  
>  good idea at the time, but I guess it's just not a good idea.  
>     
>  Too bad, though.  
>     
>  I was looking forward to meeting you guys.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:53:26 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Follow-up question  
>     
>  :    On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : If you and your roommate and Wolf and his friend can get along so  
>  : well, then maybe there's hope for me, too.  
>  :  
>  : Hey, Wolf, keep us updated on your progress talking to your friend.  
>  :  
>  : Maybe if you can get talking with him, I can give it a try, too.  
>     
>     On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Marmot wrote:  
>     
>  :  [snip]  
>     
>  : Hey, Wolf!  
>  :  
>  : Have you had "that talk" with your roomie, yet?  If so, what happened?  
>  :  
>  : If not, have you gotten any inkling at all about how he might respond?  
>     
>     
>  No real news, Marmot et al.  
>     
>  I don't want to go into great detail, but I'm a little pissed at him at  
>  the moment so I haven't really felt like talking.  
>     
>  I still don't feel ready to open up, anyway, yet.  It's way too scary.  
>     
>  I have gotten the impression from occasional comments he's made in  
>  conversation that he's less put off by stuff like slash than I thought  
>  he would be.  This doesn't really say anything about how he feels  
>  about*me* but it does tell me that he's a little more open-minded on  
>  this  
>  topic than I thought.  
>     
>  But I can't talk to him right now.  It seems like every time I open my  
>  mouth, he snaps at me.  
>     
>  Thanks for expressing interest.  Yes you *are* nosy, but so am I.  :)  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>  Do I have to do a snippet now?  I really don't want to; I'm kind of  
>  depressed.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:55:00 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: So then why ... [was When did *you*?]  
>     
>  : On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : I love the guy, but sometimes he just seems so immature.  
>     
>  On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : If he's so immature, why do you love him?  What is it about him that  
>  : keeps you there?  
>     
>   Ah, Wolf:  
>     
>  How does anyone answer the question 'why' when it comes to love?  
>     
>  There are the obvious things about him that make him *attractive*:  
>     
>  His big, beautiful, dark blue eyes;  
>  His full, lush lips;  
>  Hair that just calls to my fingertips;  
>  His muscled shoulders and thighs;  
>     
>  Hell, I even like looking at his feet!  
>     
>  And his *voice* -- that expressive voice!  
>     
>  If I believed in 'love at first sight,' those things would do it.  But I  
>  don't believe in that.  And it didn't.  
>     
>  Those things are not what have made me love him.  
>     
>  What has?  
>     
>  There is not enough bandwidth in the world for me to cover it.  But I'll  
>  mention a few things.  
>     
>  When I met him, I thought he was kind of small.  I thought he'd be easy  
>  to push around.  But I've seen him face a lot of intimidating people and  
>  situations without backing down.  Not that he wasn't afraid  -- he was  
>  terrified.  It's just that he wasn't intimidated.  I admired that from  
>  the beginning.  
>     
>  And he's smart, in a way that I don't see too much.  He sort of gathers  
>  facts and ideas from here and there and links them together to come up  
>  with pretty good insights.  He's not that linear in his reasoning but  
>  what he does, works.  
>     
>  I love his energy and enthusiasm for life.  I feel so burnt out  
>  sometimes that I forget what that can look like.  When I watch him  
>  enthusing over something, I just feel like smiling.  
>     
>  But what I really love about him, what draws me to him, is his  
>  compassion.  It's like he was *born* to give of himself to others.  
>  Hell, he's saved my sanity so many times in the past few years that it  
>  isn't funny.  I can't even let myself imagine where I would be now  
>  without his support.  
>     
>  And his loyalty to me has been boundless.  I've *never* had a friend who  
>  has given me so much, who has sacrificed so much for me.  
>     
>  So ... Wolf, there it is.  
>     
>  Yes, he bugs me sometimes.  Yes, he's immature at times.  But ...  
>     
>  My God, I love him.  
>     
>  I'm going to close now.  I have to get a grip on myself so I can go to  
>  work and focus on my job.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>   Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:03:36 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: So then why ... [was The Rally in January]  
>     
>   On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : It's just that he's being a real pain in the ass, lately, so I'm not  
>  : so sure I *want* to go with him at the moment.  He just blows up at  
>  : every little picky thing and ... well, he's just not being very easy  
>  : to be with right now.  
>  :  
>  : His crankiness comes and goes, so in the long run, I know it'll be OK.  
>  : But I can't really guarantee that I'll be able to stand being cooped  
>  : up in a car with him for 3 days straight.  
>     
>  If he's this hard to get along with and hard to predict like this,  why  
>  do you love him?  What's the attraction?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:56:32 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: So then why ... [was The Rally in January]  
>     
>  : On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : It's just that he's being a real pain in the ass, lately, so I'm not  
>  : so sure I *want* to go with him at the moment.  He just blows up at  
>  : every little picky thing and ... well, he's just not being very easy  
>  : to be with right now.  
>  :  
>  : His crankiness comes and goes, so in the long run, I know it'll be OK.  
>  :  
>  : But I can't really guarantee that I'll be able to stand being cooped  
>  : up in a car with him for 3 days straight.  
>     
>      On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : If he's this hard to get along with and hard to predict like this, why  
>  : do you love him?  What's the attraction?  
>     
>  Well, Panther, sometimes it's hard to say.  
>     
>  Yeah, I'm still kind of pissed at him.  
>     
>  But I still love him.  I'll get over it.  
>     
>  I think I love him for the things few people get to see.  Things that he  
>  Doesn't always even show me.  
>     
>  He's one of those guys who have been so hurt, so damaged that they put  
>  up a wall to protect themselves.  A nasty wall, covered by barbed wire  
>  and surrounded by a moat full of alligators.  
>     
>  But I could see something interesting, something good through the  
>  windows, so I forced myself to swim the moat and climb that wall.  I was  
>  not disappointed.  
>     
>  He's smart, sensitive, down-to-earth.  He's a great bullshit detector --  
>  I can't get away with anything  
>  :)  
>     
>  He sees people for who they really are.  He really *sees* me.   How many  
>  people in your life really *see* who you really are?  And after seeing  
>  me, he still likes me.  Takes my breath away!  
>     
>  He really *cares* about people and is really protective of me, even when  
>  he doesn't really have to be.  He's kind of funny about this.  One time,  
>  he was driving a little too fast and when we rounded this corner, he  
>  actually *stuck out his arm* across my chest like he was trying to keep  
>  me from flying through the windshield.  This even though I was wearing a  
>  seat belt!  Cracked me up!  I've seen moms do that with their little  
>  kids, but never big buff guys doing that for their roommates!!!  
>     
>  And he has a really wry sense of humor.  This is something almost  
>  nobody gets to see, because he has to be so serious in his work.  But he  
>  gets this crooked grin and this little light in his eye - it's just  
>  great to see.  I try to be goofy sometimes just so I can see it.  
>     
>  But maybe most important, he's given me a home.  Like I said in my  
>  introductory post on WatchAD, I was always moving around a lot when I  
>  was a kid.  I've lived here longer than I've lived anywhere.  But it's  
>  not just the place.  *He's* my home, now.  I feel like I *belong* with  
>  him.  That means a lot to me.  
>     
>  So, he's, like, on the cranky side.  But I still love him.  
>     
>  Does that answer your question, Panther?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:25:44 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  mountain% finger wolf@washnet.com  
>     
>  [washnet.com] connect: Connection refused.  
>     
>  mountain% logout  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:36:57 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  cpd% telnet rainet.com  
>     
>  Connecting  
>     
>  Connected  
>     
>  Escape character ^]  
>     
>  login: ellison  
>     
>  password: *******  
>     
>  mountain% telnet washnet.com  
>     
>  Connecting  
>     
>  Connected  
>     
>  Escape character ^]  
>     
>  login: bsandburg  
>     
>  password: ********  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  password:  
>     
>  ^]  
>     
>  mountain% logout  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:40:06 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  ru-annex2% telnet washnet.com  
>     
>  Connecting to washnet.com  
>     
>  Connect:  
>     
>  Escape character is ^]  
>     
>  login: bsandburg  
>     
>  password: ******  
>     
>  rain% finger panther@rainet.com  
>     
>  [rainet.com] Connect: Connection refused.  
>     
>  rain% logout  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:58:50 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  ru-annex2% telnet washnet.com  
>     
>  Connecting to washnet.com  
>     
>  Connected  
>     
>  Escape character is ^]  
>     
>  login: bsandburg  
>     
>  password: ******  
>     
>  rain% telnet rainet.com  
>     
>  Connecting to rainet.com  
>     
>  Connected  
>     
>  Escape character is ^]  
>     
>  login: jelisson  
>     
>  password: ***  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  password: ****  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  password: ***  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  login timeout  
>     
>  disconnect  
>     
>  rain% logout  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:22:09 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: The Rally  
>     
>  Dear Wolf,  
>     
>  I believe I can easily "squeeze" one or two more Watchman aficionados  
>  into my humble home!  We fans have to "stick" together and sleeping in  
>  close quarters will certainly accomplish that!  
>     
>  I'm going to assume that with a handle like "Wolf", you are a canine  
>  lover?  I hope so because I have two spoiled rotten dogs, both *inside*  
>  animals.  They love people, love to curl up with sleeping folks! Any  
>  sleeping folks!  <g>  And they will be in seventh heaven with all us  
>  Watchman Fans filling every available spot in *their* home.  See?  
>  Spoiled rotten.  
>     
>  Did I mention the sleeping arrangements?  Well, let me just give you a  
>  clue:  Sleeping bags! And I will take bribes for the two couches, the  
>  big comfy chair with ottoman and the bathtub!  
>     
>  Be prepared to have fun and rally behind our favorite show and our  
>  favorite guys!  
>     
>  Here's hoping your roomie does decide to go and don't forget:  
>     
>  Plain talk, plain truth = a true bond.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Mon, 7 Dec 1998, 9:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Have you had a chance to read any of the Watchman fanfic my friend  
>  sent?"  
>     
>  "A couple."  
>     
>  "What d'ya think?"  
>     
>  "They were OK."  
>     
>  "Just okay, Jim?"  
>     
>  "What do you want, Sandburg, a Pauline Kael special?!  They were OK.  
>  Kind of fun."  
>     
>  "Did you like any one better than any other?  Do you want me to have my  
>  friend send more?"  
>     
>  "Well, I kind of liked the one where the guys go undercover in the  
>  leather bar and Jake gets slipped a mickey and ends up in Joe's bed and  
>  doesn't have a clue how he got there.  That one was damn funny!  Maybe  
>  more like that one, except maybe from Joe's point of view.  I really  
>  identify more with him, you know, he's older and everything."  
>     
>  "So ... it didn't ... *bother* you?"  
>     
>  "Didn't *what* bother me?"  
>     
>  "You know, ... 2 guys?"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, it's the 90s!  I've worked vice.  I've seen a lot more stuff  
>  than that.  Very little surprises or shocks me anymore.  So ..  *no* it  
>  didn't bother me.  Weren't you listening?  I said I *liked* the damn  
>  story.  I even asked for more like it."  
>     
>  "Okay, okay!  It's just that you asked me that the other day but you  
>  never .. um .. told me how *you* felt about that sort of thing, so I  
>  just thought I'd ask, y'know?  No big deal.  
>     
>  "Um .. so, Jim, .. have you given any more thought to going to the rally  
>  in LA?"  
>     
>  "Still thinking it over, Sandburg.  You know, there's no  
>  guarantee that I can get the time away from the station."  
>     
>  "I know.  Just checking, Jim. By the way, when I e-mail my friend about  
>  the stories, how .. um .. *explicit* can they be?"  
>     
>  "I'm a big boy, Sandburg.  If the writing's decent and it has a decent  
>  story, I don't mind a little sex in the mix."  
>     
>  "Between the guys?"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, I thought we just finished discussing this.  Between the guys  
>  is just fine.  In fact, it's more than fine.  Maybe I can imagine  
>  that*someone* my age is having a sex life.  That OK with *you,*  
>  Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "Uh .. sure .. fine, Jim.  I'll ... "  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:37:36 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To:  allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re:  
>    On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, allison wrote:  
>     
>  : Dear Wolf,  
>  :  
>  : I believe I can easily "squeeze" one or two more Watchman aficionados  
>  : into my humble home!  We fans have to "stick" together and sleeping in  
>  : close quarters will certainly accomplish that!  
>     
>  Great!  Count us in!  
>     
>  Thank you so much.  That'll take care of one of my worries.  
>     
>  Wait -- sleeping in close quarters?  
>     
>  How many people will be there, really?  And are we going to be the only  
>  guys?  Will the women there be comfortable with all this proximity?  
>     
>  I guess if you think it's all OK, then it's probably OK.  I don't have  
>  any problem with this, really.  I just don't want anyone to be, you  
>  know, *nervous* or anything.  
>     
>  : I'm going to assume that with a handle like "Wolf", you are a canine  
>  : lover?  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  Yes, I seem to have an affinity to both cats and dogs.  I sort of  
>  identify with dogs, but find cats really .. um .. mysterious and wise.  
>     
>  I'm looking forward to meeting your dogs.  
>     
>  : Did I mention the sleeping arrangements?  Well, let me just give you a  
>  : clue:  Sleeping bags! And I will take bribes for the two couches, the  
>  : big comfy chair with ottoman and the bathtub!  
>     
>  I can do sleeping bags.  The floor will be fine.  I once slept in just  
>  my clothes, no sleeping bag, on the ground, in a forest \-- so I'm easy.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : Here's hoping your roomie does decide to go  
>     
>  I'll let you know as soon as I do.  
>     
>  : and don't forget:  Plain talk, plain truth = a true bond.  
>     
>  I'll keep this in mind.  
>     
>  Thanks, again, for *everything*!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:10:46 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Re: The Rally  
>     
>  Dear Wolf,  
>     
>  I don't believe anyone will be any more nervous about you guys than all  
>  of us are at the fact that most of us are meeting for the first time, in  
>  person, face to face!  
>     
>  We all have expectations, imaginary visuals, of the many people we*talk*  
>  with on the net and on our lists but a fan is a fan, right?  And  
>  underneath the gender, the age, the difference in generations, we are  
>  just human beings with a common goal, a common love and a shared regard  
>  for a good relationship, wherever we find it and with whom ever we find  
>  it!  
>     
>  I count you lucky if your roomie does come with you, you'll have that  
>  little something extra, a known comrade to share the adventure!  
>     
>  See you in a month!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 8 Dec 1998 08:52:25 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Follow-up question  
>     
>     On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : No real news, Marmot et al.  
>  :  
>  : I don't want to go into great detail, but I'm a little pissed at him  
>  : at the moment so I haven't really felt like talking.  
>  :  
>  : I still don't feel ready to open up, anyway, yet.  It's way too scary.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>  :  
>  : But I can't talk to him right now.  It seems like every time I open my  
>  : mouth, he snaps at me.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : \--Wolf  
>  :  
>  : Do I have to do a snippet now?  I really don't want to; I'm kind of  
>  : depressed.  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  Sorry to hear you're hurting so bad.  
>     
>  I can tell from all your posts and e-mails that you're a decent guy.  
>  You really don't deserve to have somebody snapping at you all the time.  
>     
>  I feel like I should do something to help but I don't know what.  
>     
>  Let me know if there's something I can do.  Talk maybe.  
>     
>  I'm not usually a good talker but you can talk to me and I can just  
>  listen or something.  
>     
>  Well, that's all I wanted to say.  
>     
>  I'm gonna pack it in.  Got an early day tomorrow.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:14:45 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: your mail  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf,  
>     
>  Feeling any better today?  
>     
>  Just checking.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:45:38 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Your Mail  
>     
>  On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  :  Hey, Wolf,  
>  :  
>  :  Feeling any better today?  
>  :  
>  :  Just checking.  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  Good to hear from you.  
>     
>  Yeah, I'm OK.  Roomie's lightened up a bit today.  He even smiled once  
>  or twice.  
>     
>  Thanks for asking.  
>     
>  Have you found a ride to the Rally, yet?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:23:39 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Rally Arrangements  
>     
>    On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Have you found a ride to the Rally, yet?  
>     
>  Nah.  
>     
>  Like I said in my earlier e-mail, my work schedule is just too  
>  unpredictable.  I can't even be sure if I'm going.  So carpooling just  
>  won't work.  
>     
>  So if I do get to go, I'll have to either drive down or fly down myself,  
>  on my own.  
>     
>  I have lined up a place to stay at a listsib's place, just in case.  
>  She's being very generous in letting about a dozen people stay there.  I  
>  was impressed by her hospitality.  
>     
>  I know this is a kind of dumb question. But what does a guy wear to a  
>  rally of this type?  Do we carry signs?  Do we chant?  Wear buttons?  
>     
>  I'm going to guess that anything too 'slashy' is against the rules,  
>  right?  
>     
>  Gotta go.  Getting hungry for dinner.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 21:16:10 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: A Question about The Rally  
>     
>  I've been corresponding off-list with a fellow fan and these questions  
>  have arisen:  
>     
>  How are you Rally-goers going to dress?  
>     
>  Do we carry signs, chant?  
>     
>  How slashy can the T-shirts or slogans be?  
>     
>  I'll probably just wear what I always do -- sort of the grunge look --  
>  mainly because that's what I've *got*.  
>     
>  Also, how cold does it get in LA in January?  How many layers should I  
>  wear?  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 21:51:14 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison french <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Question about The Rally  
>     
>  Dear Wolf,  
>     
>  I think "California Casual" is the norm for this type of event and in  
>  case you didn't know, your *grunge* look is *in* with the SoCal look  
>  so you'll be a perfect fit!  
>     
>  As to the weather?  Well, I've visited your fair state and have a real  
>  aversion to cold.  I felt your area is definitely a three...sometimes  
>  four, layer place in the winter. LA is at most, a two layer city.  
>  Heck, sometimes even our rain is warm!  
>     
>  Um, slashy?  Probably be a good idea to put that on the back burner for  
>  the rally....but T-shirts with the show's name and/or cast?  Great idea  
>  and easy to identify all of us! Banners might look a little *too*  
>  planned?  What do you think?  I mean, we are supposed to be gathering  
>  "spontaneously"!  Like anyone would believe 150-200 people from all over  
>  the country (and I hear, the world) would just "spontaneously" appear!  
>  <g>  But then The Watchman is a miracle show!  With miracle fans!  
>     
>  Well, hope I've helped answer some questions? Let me know if I can be of  
>  any other help. And do you know yet if your roomie is coming?  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:14:10 -0600  
>  From: Sallye <dheintz@texinet.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Question about The Rally  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  Good question about what to wear!  I now have about 5 WM T-shirts and  
>  wonder if it's OK to wear them.  If not, I guess my old standby tie-dyes  
>  will work.  I'm thinking it'll be warm, compared to the rest of the  
>  country.  Maybe someone will let us know!  Thank you, Wolf, for asking  
>  the questions!  Look out - the Texas Tribe is coming!  
>     
>  Sallye  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooo  
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:36:22 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Question about The Rally  
>     
>  On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, allison wrote:  
>     
>  : Dear Wolf,  
>  :  
>  : I think "California Casual" is the norm for this type of event and in  
>  : case you didn't know, California Casual means "anything goes".  Your  
>  *grunge* look is *in* with the SoCal look so you'll be a perfect fit!  
>     
>  >>This is a relief for me.  I'm sure the 'anything goes' atmosphere  
>  will be a relief for a lot of us.  
>     
>  : As to the weather?  Well, I've visited your fair state and have a real  
>  : aversion to cold.  I felt your area is definitely a three...sometimes  
>  : four, layer place in the winter. LA is at most, a two layer city.  
>  :  Heck, sometimes even our rain is warm!  
>     
>  >>Aah, I may actually get a chance to thaw out for a day or two!  
>     
>  : Um, slashy?  Probably be a good idea to put that on the back burner  
>  : for the rally....but T-shirts with the shows name and/or cast?  Great  
>  : idea and easy to identify all of us!  
>     
>  >>This is definitely do-able.  I have just the T-shirt.  
>     
>     
>  : Banners might look a little *too* planned?  What do you think?  I  
>  : mean,  we are supposed to be gathering "spontaneously"!  Like anyone  
>  : would believe 150-200 people from all over the country (and I hear,  
>  : the world) would just "spontaneously" appear!  <g>  But then  
>  : The Watchman is a miracle show!  With miracle fans!  
>     
>  >>Well, you know, the grapevine ... ;)  
>     
>  : And do you know yet if your roomie is coming?  
>     
>  >>Sorry, don't know yet.  His work schedule is really erratic so it's  
>  hard to make plans.  
>     
>  Thanks again, Allison.  
>     
>  See you in about 4 weeks!  Wow! that's so close!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:39:22 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Rally Arrangements  
>     
>  On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I have lined up a place to stay at a listsib's place, just in case.  
>  : She's being very generous in letting about a dozen people stay  
>  : there.    I was impressed by her hospitality.  
>     
>  This is good news!  
>     
>  I've made arrangements with a fellow fan, also.  She sounds like a  
>  very nice lady.  
>     
>  She says it's going to be rather 'close quarters' wall-to-wall sleeping  
>  bags.  Reminds me of my undergraduate days after wild parties.  ;)  
>     
>  Hey, maybe we can meet at one of the places we're staying at while we're  
>  down there?  
>     
>  What do you think?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:30:29 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  cpd% telnet rainet.com  
>     
>  Connecting  
>     
>  Connected  
>  Escape character ^]  
>     
>  login: ellison  
>  password: *******  
>     
>  mountain% telnet washnet.com  
>     
>  Connecting  
>     
>  Connected  
>  Escape character ^]  
>     
>  login: bsandburg  
>  password: ***  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  password: ****  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  password: ***  
>     
>  password incorrect  
>     
>  login timeout  
>     
>  disconnect  
>     
>  mountain% logout  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:24:05 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Question about The Rally  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  I was wondering if I could ask a favor of you.  
>     
>  I've been corresponding off-list with Wolf -- one of the about 5 other  
>  guys on the list -- and it turns out he's going to the rally in LA.  
>     
>  Do you remember him from the list?  
>     
>  I'd like to meet him and his roommate and wondered whether they could  
>  come to part of the slumber party?  
>     
>  I'll certainly respect your wishes on this.  You've been incredibly  
>  hospitable and I don't want to abuse that.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 11:54:58 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A New, Informal Bulletin Board for the Rally  
>     
>  Hi guys!  
>     
>  I'm feeling SO enthusiastic about our success in getting a few new  
>  episodes that I wanted to help out our efforts in trying to get a fifth  
>  season, by supplying a temporary bulletin board for fellow Watchman  
>  fans.  
>     
>  I've put it on my personal, amateur website and set it up using the  
>  coding for a guestbook.  
>     
>  If you want to leave a message, you just click on the link and fill in  
>  the blanks and press the I'm Done link.  
>     
>  If you just want to read messages, there is a link for that, also.  
>     
>  I've posted the URL below.  Please let's keep this information among us  
>  on the list -- OK?  
>     
>  Give it a try!  
>     
>  Hope to see you at the Rally in January!!!  
>     
>  Linkname: Marmot's Watchman Information Page  
>     
>  URL:  
>     
>  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/8970/watchman.html  
>     
>  \--Marmot  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:14:41 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Rally Arrangements  
>     
>  : On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : I have lined up a place to stay at a listsib's place, just in case.  
>  [snip]  
>     
>  On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : I've made arrangements with a fellow fan, also.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : Hey, maybe we can meet at one of the places we're staying at while  
>  : we're down there?  
>     
>  : What do you think?  
>     
>  This is a thought.  We should check with our hosts to see whether that  
>  would be appropriate.  
>     
>  I should warn you that my host says she's having a *slumber party*  
>     
>  I'm guessing that the majority of guests are women, just like on the  
>  list.  Anyway, she assures me that I have nothing to worry about, even  
>  though I've never been to one of those things.  
>     
>  You ever been to a slumber party?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:30:33 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Question about The Rally  
>     
>  Hi!  
>     
>  There's this guy, a fellow fan, that I've been e-mailing about stuff and  
>  I've found out that he might be coming to the rally in LA.  He's not  
>  really sure if he can come because of his work schedule, though.  
>     
>  Anyway, if he does come down, I was wondering whether it would be OK to  
>  have him meet me [and my roommate, if he comes] at your place for a  
>  little while.  
>     
>  He's been pretty sympathetic with me on some personal stuff and he seems  
>  like a pretty nice guy, so I thought it would be cool to meet.  
>     
>  What do you think?  Would this be OK?  I don't want to put you out or  
>  anything.  
>     
>  Just let me know.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:24:52 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Re: Rally Arrangements  
>     
>  : On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Hey, maybe we can meet at one of the places we're staying at while  
>  :  
>  : we're down there?  
>  :  
>  : What do you think?  
>     
>   On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : This is a thought.  We should check with our hosts to see whether that  
>  : would be appropriate.  
>     
>  : I should warn you that my host says she's having a *slumber party*  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : You ever been to a slumber party?  
>     
>  No, never been to one of these.  
>     
>  I've heard, though, that few people actually *slumber* at these things.  
>     
>  It'll be really cool finding out how this particular bonding ritual is  
>  structured!  
>     
>  One of my fellow students did a paper on something about this.  
>  Something to do with hairbrushing.  Like, maybe, lots of mutual grooming  
>  behavior like brushing each other's hair takes place.  
>     
>  Fine with me.  I *like* having my hair brushed!  Feels great!  
>     
>  Anyway, let me know what your host says.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:52:57 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Subject: Re: More Arrangements  
>     
>  Dear Wolf:  
>     
>  I think it would be fine for you guys to meet at my place!  No problem.  
>  Getting a chance to really "talk" sure won't be easy at the rally or  
>  while we are all getting together, but I have a lovely patio, very  
>  private, lovely green belt view and you may actually have a chance to  
>  talk with your friend.  You may also have a great opportunity to view  
>  our "wolf". Okay, it's really just a bobcat, but I *swear* it looks just  
>  like a wolf!  And darn, that cat isn't afraid of anything!  
>     
>  See ya soon!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:04:34 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Re: More Arrangements  
>     
>  Dear Panther:  
>     
>  I do know Wolf from the list, he has shown some great insight and had  
>  great questions!  And here's the good news:  Wolf is already signed up  
>  to be one of my guests!  
>     
>  This whole rally is really shaping up to be an "unforgettable"  
>  experience!  And one that will leave us all with memories to last a  
>  lifetime.  I really believe this will bring us all closer together,  
>  including those of us who are unable to attend. They will be counting on  
>  us to do them proud and bring back loads of information, not to mention  
>  a blow by blow description of the whole event!  
>     
>  I am actually more excited about this than Christmas!  So many of us  
>  know each other only through our discussions on the list and now the  
>  opportunity to meet face to face?  Like you and Wolf.  You two kinda  
>  represent all of us!  
>     
>  allison, who is already starting to clean the house. Spit and polish  
>  time!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:13:32 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : Anyway, I recently realized that just like the guy on the show [see I  
>  : *can get this on topic <g>] -- I have fallen in love with my roommate.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : I don't want him to feel nervous or bad that he doesn't return the  
>  : feelings.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf,  
>     
>  Has he given any indication that he *wouldn't* be interested?  Or that  
>  hearing about your feelings would make him nervous?  
>     
>  How can you tell?  I mean how does *one* tell these things?  
>     
>  Do we just assume that a guy's straight until he makes an announcement?  
>     
>  Has he given any clues?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:32:10 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Clues [was Love in Unexpected Places]  
>     
>  On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Has he given any indication that he *wouldn't* be interested?  Or that  
>  : hearing about your feelings would make him nervous?  
>  :  
>  : How can you tell?  I mean how does *one* tell these things?  
>  :  
>  : Do we just assume that a guy's straight until he makes an  
>  : announcement?  
>  :  
>  : Has he given any clues?  
>     
>     
>  Clues?  
>     
>  This is what's somewhat confusing.  
>     
>  Like a lot of guys, he doesn't talk a lot.  Sometimes he'll blurt out  
>  something about his emotions but usually it happens after he's bottled  
>  it up and mulled it over for like weeks. He's never 'blurted out'  
>  anything that sounded like 'interest.'  
>     
>  I've never seen him 'check out' guys.  He has dated some women but those  
>  relationships usually fizzle or go bad.  He's been married and divorced.  
>     
>  But he breaks a lot of proximity rules for guys.  He stands close and  
>  touches me a lot [like on my arm or back or head]. In a way he's sort of  
>  affectionate.  
>     
>  He worries about me a lot, so I know he cares about me.  
>     
>  He's more open-minded than I realized about slash.  So he probably  
>  wouldn't *totally* freak if I mentioned that sort of interest outside of  
>  my recreational reading.  
>     
>  But he can be pretty harsh at times.  
>     
>  So the messages are definitely mixed.  Makes me nervous.  
>     
>  How about you?  Any clues from your guy?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:22:02 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Clues [was Love in Unexpected Places]  
>     
>  : On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Has he given any indication that he *wouldn't* be interested?  Or that  
>  : hearing about  
>  : your feelings would make him nervous?  
>  :  
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : Has he given any clues?  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Clues?  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : So the messages are definitely mixed.  Makes me nervous.  
>  :  
>  : How about you?  Any clues from your guy?  
>     
>  The particulars are a little different but it comes down to the same  
>  thing -- confusion and nervousness.  
>     
>  By the way, have *you* worked out transportation down to the Rally, yet?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:00:20 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Arrangements  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : By the way, have *you* worked out transportation down to the Rally,  
>  : yet?  
>     
>  No.  
>     
>  But you know, I've been thinking this over and I'm starting to feel  
>  guilty about considering going down alone.  
>     
>  Really the only reason I would be going down without my roomie would be  
>  if he had to work.  And he needs me to help him with his work a lot of  
>  the time.  And I'd feel as though I were abandoning him, just to go  
>  party.  
>     
>  That just doesn't feel right.  
>     
>  So I don't even know if I'm going -- it all depends on his work  
>  schedule.  
>     
>  So if we get to go, we'll be driving down together.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:22:22 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Love in Unexpected Places  
>     
>  On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Anyway, I recently realized that just like the guy on the show [see I  
>  : *can* get this on topic <g>] -- I have fallen in love with my  
>  : roommate.  [snip] I don't want him to feel nervous or bad that he  
>  : doesn't return the feelings.  
>     
>  I was reading back in my e-mail log and noticed that one of the things  
>  you said about this guy is that he really *sees* you, really knows you;  
>  that he's a good bullshit detector.  
>     
>  How do you know that he hasn't already gotten an inkling how you feel  
>  about him?  
>     
>  Maybe he suspects but is waiting for you to either realize it yourself  
>  or reveal it to him first.  
>     
>  If he's not much on talking about his own feelings, maybe he's hoping  
>  for an opening from you.  
>     
>  Does this seem reasonable?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:47:53 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: panic!  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Maybe he suspects but is waiting for you to either realize it yourself  
>  : or reveal it to him first.  
>  :  
>  : If he's not much on talking about his own feelings, maybe he's hoping  
>  : for an opening from you.  
>  :  
>  : Does this seem reasonable?  
>     
>  Oh my god!  
>     
>  Fuck yeah! this is reasonable!  How did I *not see* this was possible?!  
>     
>  Now I'm all paranoid!  
>     
>  Panther, what am I going to do?!  
>     
>  Help!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:33:43 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Less Panic  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : If he's not much on talking about his own feelings, maybe he's hoping  
>  : for an opening from you.  
>     
>  Sorry about the last e-mail, man.  I had to take a little break and  
>  breathe into a paper bag.  
>     
>  I'm a little less shaky now.  
>     
>  I was thinking of telling him at the rally, since we would be on sort of  
>  a vacation and having fun...  I would like to associate something like  
>  this with fun, you know?  
>     
>  But maybe I should tell him sooner than I was planning to.  
>     
>  Should I?  
>     
>  And how?  
>     
>  Maybe you can help me out, here.  If *your* roommate were to tell *you*  
>  ... well, when would *you* want to know?  
>     
>  What words would *you* want him to say?  
>     
>  This is funny.  Most of the time, I have no problem talking but  
>  ...*this* just stops all blood flow to the linguistic centers of my  
>  brain.  
>     
>  Oh man!  This is so more complicated than I want my life to be!  
>     
>  Sorry, gotta go find the paper bag again.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:23:09 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: No Need to Panic  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I was thinking of telling him at the rally, since we would be on sort  
>  : of a vacation and having fun...  I would like to associate something  
>  : like this with fun, you know?  
>  :  
>  : But maybe I should tell him sooner than I was planning to.  
>  :  
>  : Should I?  
>     
>  I can't make that decision for you.  You are *there*  You can see his  
>  moods.  You know him -- right?  
>     
>  And you will know when *you* are ready.  
>     
>  Do what makes sense.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:36:30 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A Plan?  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>  :  
>  : Maybe you can help me out, here.  If *your* roommate were to tell  
>  : *you* ... well, when would *you* want to know?  
>  :  
>  : What words would *you* want him to say?  
>  :  
>  : This is funny.  Most of the time, I have no problem talking but ...  
>  : *this* just stops all blood flow to the linguistic centers of my  
>  : brain.  
>  :  
>  : Oh man!  This is so more complicated than I want my life to be!  
>  :  
>  : Sorry, gotta go find the paper bag again.  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf,  
>     
>  I had this idea.  
>     
>  Maybe you would panic less if you sort of practiced ahead of time.  
>     
>  Maybe a rehearsal.  
>     
>  Maybe we could both get over our nervousness this way.  Sort of help  
>  each other out.  
>     
>  Sound like a plan?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:49:16 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Advice?  
>     
>  I have a question that may be considered on or off topic, depending on  
>  how you look at it.  
>     
>  As I mentioned here a few weeks ago, I'm in a situation very similar to  
>  the one our guys Joe and Jake of The Watchman are in.  Well, that is, if  
>  you take the slash perspective on the show, which I do.  
>     
>  Several of you have presented personal stories and urged me to 'go for  
>  it,' tell the guy.  
>     
>  My problem is I really don't have any experience with this sort of thing  
>  and I'm reaching panic-attack levels of anxiety here.  
>     
>  I *so* don't know how to go about this.  
>     
>  Any suggestions?  
>     
>  How would you have Jake tell Joe? [See, I *knew* I could keep this on-  
>  topic...]  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:27:06 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A Plan?  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : I had this idea.  
>  :  
>  : Maybe you would panic less if you sort of practiced ahead of time.  
>  :  
>  : Maybe a rehearsal.  
>  :  
>  : Maybe we could both get over our nervousness this way.  Sort of help  
>  : each other out.  
>  :  
>  : Sound like a plan?  
>     
>  Um, Panther,  
>     
>  ?  
>     
>  What?!  
>     
>  Rehearse with each other?!  
>     
>  Are you serious?  
>     
>  How would that work?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:56:40 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Don't Panic  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Um, Panther,  
>  :  
>  : ?  
>  :  
>  : What?!  
>  :  
>  : Rehearse with each other?!  
>  :  
>  : Are you serious?  
>  :  
>  : How would that work?  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  You're starting to panic again.  Just calm down.  
>     
>  We could just sort of suggest approaches and phrases to each other.  
>     
>  You could coach me and I can coach you.  
>     
>  A fair trade.  
>     
>  Sound OK?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:13:00 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A Plan 2  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : We could just sort of suggest approaches and phrases to each other.  
>  :  
>  : You could coach me and I can coach you.  
>  :  
>  : A fair trade.  
>     
>  So .. OK ...  
>     
>  This might work.  
>     
>  But maybe we should do this in a chat room so it'll go more quickly, so  
>  we don't have to wait so long between e-mails.  
>     
>  I'll set it up so that it's by invitation only so we can keep the  
>  discussion private.  
>     
>  A plan?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:16:12 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Advice?  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I really believe in the *show* and tell method.  In other words, I'd  
>  have Jake "show" Joe in several different ways, over a short period of  
>  time.  Then *tell* him one evening, quiet, fire in the fireplace, his  
>  favorite music....  
>     
>  How could Jake show Joe?  
>     
>  -Doing something for Joe that Jake doesn't normally do, but that Joe  
>  does.  
>     
>  -Cooking a favorite meal - Breakfast, lunch or dinner....or even all  
>  three!  
>     
>  -Doing small things for Joe, things he really hates doing himself.  
>     
>  Of course, there is much to be said for the, um, blunt approach?  Joe  
>  walks in the door and Jake hauls off and kisses him!  Works for me!  
>  Heck, would work *on* me!  Hey Wolf, you don't happen to have a brother  
>  do you?  
>     
>  Any of these ideas appeal to you?  Think they'd work for you?  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:33:58 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Chat  
>     
>  : On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : We could just sort of suggest approaches and phrases to each other.  
>  :  
>  : You could coach me and I can coach you.  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : But maybe we should do this in a chat room so it'll go more quickly,  
>  : so we don't have to wait so long between e-mails.  
>  :  
>  : I'll set it up so that it's by invitation only so we can keep the  
>  : discussion private.  
>     
>  I've never done a 'chat' before, but I think it might be worth a try.  
>  This waiting in between for replies is really irritating when you want  
>  immediate feedback.  
>     
>  OK I'll try it.  
>     
>  Let's  go to #watch.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  **Log file opened at: 12/12/98 00:15:06 AM  
>  **Channel created at Saturday, December 12, 1998 00:13:04 AM  
>  **Mode change "+i" on wolf by wolf  
>  **panther (panther@mountain.rainet.com) has joined the channel #watch  
>     
>  wolf: you there?  
>     
>  <panther>: yes  
>     
>  wolf: so how do you wanta do this?  Who goes first?  
>     
>  <panther>: well you're the one that was breathing into a paper bag.  
>     
>  wolf: so i'm the one that is nervous about rehearsing too  
>     
>  <panther>: i can't hang out here all day, sport, so let's get this over  
>  with OK  
>     
>  wolf: OK the question was if your guy confessed to you what would you  
>  want him to say to you.  What should I say?  
>     
>  <panther>: i'd just want him to come straight out with it.  
>     
>  wolf: like that helps.  i'm not even sure what IT is. or if there is  
>  more than one IT.  
>     
>  <panther>: what are you talking about more than one IT?  
>     
>  wolf: well there is more here than just that I love him right  
>     
>  <panther>: more than that?  
>     
>  wolf: well you know  
>     
>  <panther>: what?  
>     
>  <panther>: where did you go?  are you still there?  
>     
>  wolf: still here.  
>     
>  <panther>: well?  
>     
>  wolf: well, I've never  
>     
>  <panther>: never what?  told somebody you loved them?  
>     
>  wolf: no never a guy and i've never wanted to  
>     
>  <panther>: hello?  where'd you go? you know the way you're clamming up  
>  we might as well do e-mail.  
>     
>  wolf: just be patient.  this is harder than i thought it would be.  
>     
>  <panther>: well you don't have to confess anything to me.  you could  
>  just explain what you want to say to him.  
>     
>  wolf: well i've never felt  
>     
>  <panther>: I don't get this.  why are you sending before you finish your  
>  sentences?  it's hard to figure out what's on your mind that way.  
>     
>  wolf: I was hitting send out of frustration cuz i didn't know what i  
>  wanted to say next. sorry.  
>     
>  <panther>: are you trying to not talk about sommething embarrassing?  
>     
>  wolf: OK it's the sex thing.  
>     
>  <panther>: so would you WANT to talk to him about sex? on the first  
>  conversation?  
>     
>  wolf: i guess i don't have to.  But wouldn't it be sort of implied?  
>     
>  <panther>: depends. how would you get started?  
>     
>  <panther>: you could just say you love him and that's it.  you could  
>  wait on the embarrassing stuff  
>     
>  wolf: get real.  so i say like 'i love you' and he says ' i love you  
>  too' and then i say no you don't get it  
>     
>  <panther>: why would it go that way?  oh i see you could say "i'm IN  
>  love with you." and then that clears up some of the confusion maybe.  
>     
>  wolf: but you know you sort of changed the subject. The question was  
>  what would YOU want to hear.  You're supposed to be coaching me.  
>     
>  <panther>: what would i want to hear?  
>     
>  wolf: yeah.  how would you want to hear it?  You know we could do sort  
>  of like role playing.  i could be him and you could be *you*.  
>     
>  <panther>: well at least i have the easier job  
>     
>  wolf: LOL you know this woman i knew said that she and her girlfriend  
>  used to practice kissing each other pretending they were potential  
>  boyfriends. she  
>     
>  wolf: said that she knew a lot of girls that did that and the funny  
>  thing was that some of the girls liked playing around with their  
>     
>  wolf: girlfriends so much that they stopped pretending and just went for  
>  it with each other.  
>     
>  <panther>: Is there a point to that story?  
>     
>  wolf: just remembered a funny story.  
>     
>  <panther>: you're not hinting anything are you?  
>     
>  wolf: hinting?  
>     
>  <panther>: like we're acting like pubescent girls?  
>     
>  wolf: no no i just thought it was funny guess i'm just embarrassed. OK  
>  you're you and i'm your roommate.  what do i say.  
>     
>  <panther>: you just say it.  
>     
>  wolf: you are like so not cooperative here.  just say it.  OK OK  
>     
>  wolf: 'i've got something important to tell you.'  
>     
>  <panther>: 'something important?'  
>     
>  wolf: 'i've never felt this way about another guy.'  
>     
>  <panther>: where did you go?  
>     
>  wolf: I'm back.  I was locking the door to my office.  Safety  
>  precaution this late at night.  
>     
>  wolf: OK 'ive never felt this about another guy'  
>     
>  <panther>: 'like what?'  
>     
>  wolf: 'i think i'm in love with you.'  
>     
>  <panther>: You THINK?  You better be sure.  If I heard that, I wouldn't  
>  feel really sure of things.  
>     
>  wolf: like you wouldn't go for saying 'me too'?  
>     
>  <panther>: not if he says 'I think'  I'd want him to be more definite  
>  than that.  Aren't you sure how you feel about your friend?  
>     
>  wolf: well, yeah, I think so.  
>     
>  wolf: how the hell do I know!  I've never done this before.  I just know  
>  I love him.  
>     
>  <panther>: well just say that and get it over with.  
>     
>  wolf: OK 'this is the thing.  i love you.'  
>     
>  <panther> straightforward and to the point.  
>     
>  wolf: hey, panther, it's getting late.  let's log off and try this  
>  tomorrow night.  
>     
>  <panther>: OK I guess.  But let's get down to it next time.  Quit  
>  dancing around.  OK?  
>     
>  wolf: OK  
>     
>  **signoff: <panther>  
>  **log file closed at Saturday, 12/12/98 01:15:07 AM  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:53:24 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Karen <Caorann@worldnet.att.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Advice?  
>     
>  On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : > As I mentioned here a few weeks ago, I'm in a situation very similar  
>  : > to the one our guys Joe and Jake of The Watchman are in.  Well, that  
>  : > is, if you take the slash perspective on the show, which I do.  
>  : >  I *so* don't know how to go about this.  
>  : >  
>  : > Any suggestions?  
>  : >  
>  : > How would you have Jake tell Joe? [See, I *knew* I could keep this  
>  : > on-topic...]  
>     
>  Wolf, I can totally understand your anxiety. I was in the same  
>  situation once, and it was my complete desperate fear that kept me from  
>  saying anything, until it was too late to say anything at all. I think  
>  that I would have rather gone for it than feel like I wasted the chance.  
>  So, I thought about how I would have done it, if I'd taken the chance,  
>  just changing the details a bit to take into account the fact that  
>  you're guys, not women.  
>     
>  You've said that your roommate is very cool about slash. Maybe, if he's  
>  that open, you could ask him if he's ever thought about being with a  
>  man. Set the scene. A late night, both of you are relaxed, maybe having  
>  beer while watching a game, or just after one. Bring up the subject of  
>  the show and the rally, and then bring up slash. Maybe if you talk  
>  around the subject enough, you'll feel confident enough to just ask him.  
>  Feel him out, get an idea of how he feels.  
>     
>  Be subtle. I know that's hard, subtlety is not my strong point <big  
>  understatement here>, but let him know that you're interested. If you  
>  let him know that you're interested, but in a subtle way that lets him  
>  pretend that it was never said if he's not interested, then you can both  
>  save face.  
>     
>  And let him know that he's important to you. Not just in this  
>  conversation, but maybe in the days while you're building up the nerve  
>  to have the conversation. Do things for him that are special.  Tell him  
>  how much you appreciate his friendship, and the things that he does for  
>  you.  
>     
>  Let him know that this isn't just about sex for you, but about feelings.  
>     
>  Anyways, if I were to write a story where Jake told Joe how he felt,  
>  that's how I'd do it. Of course, right now I'm working on a story that's  
>  from the opposite angle; that is, Joe realizes how he feels about Jake,  
>  deals with it, and then finally tells him. (See, I knew I could make  
>  this whole ramble on topic! Easy!)     And yes, that means that I'm  
>  working on Cicada's Cry again. "The story that will not die" I call it.  
>  Humph. It gives me a headache. But I just can't give it up.  
>     
>  Hope this helps,  
>     
>  Karen  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  ** Log file opened at: 12/12/98 9:05:06 PM  
>  **Channel created at Saturday, December 12, 1998 9:04:04 PM  
>  **Mode change "+i" on wolf by wolf  
>  **panther (panther@mountain.rainet.com) has joined the channel #watch  
>     
>  wolf: you back?  
>     
>  <panther>: yes  
>     
>  wolf: OK your turn to talk.  
>     
>  <panther>: well, maybe i wouldn't just talk.  maybe i would sort of do  
>  it by touch.  
>     
>  wolf: LOL oh, you're more of a man of action?  
>     
>  <panther>: maybe touch his hair. i love his hair.  
>     
>  wolf: oh i know, you should brush his hair.  most people love having  
>  their hair groomed.  if they have hair ;)  
>     
>  <panther>: hey, none of that.  so hairbrushing. like at slumber parties.  
>  :)  
>     
>  wolf: yeah.  oh yeah, you're going to a slumber party. perfect!  
>     
>  <panther>: i KNOW i don't want to do this in public.  Are you crazy?!  
>     
>  wolf: when in rome..  
>     
>  <panther>: i may indulge in hairbrushing if the rest of rome does  
>  hairbrushing but i am NOT going to spill my guts at a  
>     
>  <panther>: slumber party surrounded by about a dozen other strangers. i  
>  don't care how much they are into slash.  i'm NOT going to be their next  
>     
>  <panther> slash hobby.  this is personal. it's private.  
>     
>  wolf: whoa.  calm down.  sorry i mentioned it.  OK hairbrushing is good.  
>  so you need a private place.  
>     
>  <panther>: well the host offered to let us use one of the bedrooms since  
>  so many of the guests are women.  that might work.  
>     
>  wolf: you are going to be announcing *this* the same night you will be  
>  SHARING a BED at a *stranger's* house?  
>     
>  wolf: in a room where there are a dozen people sleeping outside?! are  
>  you crazy?  How will you ever get to sleep?!  
>     
>  <panther>: well with all those people around you can bet i won't be  
>  indulging in anything else but talking.  
>     
>  wolf: but won't you get ... i don't know... turned on?  
>     
>  wolf: I know that if I took my roommate into a bedroom and started  
>  saying 'i love you' and then got in the bed!  I could not do it.  
>     
>  wolf: *either* IT.  
>     
>  <panther>: well that rules out the guest bedroom for the confessional.  
>     
>  wolf: well I guess you'll have to figure location later. so you're  
>  brushing his hair. then what?  
>     
>  <panther>: well, what would you do if your roommate started brushing  
>  your hair?  
>     
>  wolf: oh man!  melt.  I'd be thinking 'take me now!'  
>     
>  <panther>: but what would you SAY?  
>     
>  wolf: OK i'm your roommate and you're you and you brush my hair and i go  
>  'mmmmmmm' or 'that feels good' or something.  
>     
>  <panther>: and then i can't talk and i just brush his hair.  You know I  
>  really can't do this.  I know it was my idea but i just can't see  
>     
>  <panther>: myself planning a 'spontaneous' conversation.  And I feel  
>  weird pretending you're him.  I mean you 'talk' sort of like him and  
>     
>  <panther> you're about the same age but  
>     
>  wolf: i'm not him.  
>     
>  <panther>: yeah.  sorry.  
>     
>  wolf: no problem.  we tried.  we got to be sounding boards. at least a  
>  little bit. no harm, no foul.  
>     
>  <panther> so that's it, then?  
>     
>  wolf: yeah, I guess.  we can still do chat sometime.  about other stuff  
>  if you want.  
>     
>  wolf: I like being able to talk to someone that understands  
>     
>  <panther>: yeah. me too. I guess that would be OK.  
>     
>  wolf: I should log off.  I have an early day tomorrow.  
>     
>  <panther>: OK. let's log off.  
>     
>  ** Signoff <panther>  
>  ** Log file closed at 12/12/98 9:34:09 PM  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:13:22 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Advice?  
>     
>  On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Allison wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Of course, there is much to be said for the, um, blunt approach?  Joe  
>  : walks in the door  
>  : and Jake hauls off and kisses him!  Works for me!  Heck, would work  
>  : *on* me!  Hey Wolf, you don't happen to have a brother do you?  
>  :  
>  : Any of these ideas appeal to you?  Think they'd work for you?  
>     
>  [Sorry, no brother.]  
>     
>  This last one seems like a possibility.  Eliminates the worry about  
>  saying the right words.  At least for a while.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:25:43 -0800  
>  From: Kelly  <ksboyd@sfu.ca>  
>  To: watchman@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Watchman: Problems with just kissing him.[was Advice?]  
>     
>  >On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Allison wrote:  
>  > :  
>  > : Of course, there is much to be said for the, um, blunt approach?  
>  Joe  
>  > : walks in the door and Jake hauls off and kisses him!  Works for me!  
>  > : Heck, would work *on* me!  Hey Wolf, you don't happen to have a  
>  > : brother do you?  
>  > :  
>  > : Any of these ideas appeal to you?  Think they'd work for you?  
>  > >[Sorry, no brother.]  
>  > >This last one seems like a possibility.  Eliminates the worry about  
>  > >saying the right words.  At least for a while.  
>  > >  
>  > >\--Wolf  
>     
>  Hey Wolf,  
>     
>  I'm all for the hauling off and kissing your roommate, I think we kiss  
>  people way too infrequently.  
>     
>  Now, one problem with this theory is if there's any kind of height  
>  difference between the two of you.  If you're significantly taller or  
>  shorter than your roommate, then it's almost impossible to just kiss  
>  them out of the blue.  
>     
>  Take it from someone who knows.  I'm short and the guy I like is tall.  
>  It was his birthday yesterday and I planned on kissing him as part of a  
>  birthday greeting.  Well when I got up close to plant one on him, I  
>  realized there was no way in hell I was going to be able to kiss him  
>  without some sort of co-operation on his part.  My lips just didn't  
>  reach that high. :)  
>     
>  So I guess my warning is if your roommate is taller than you, you might  
>  not be able to kiss him out of the blue.  
>     
>  Just something to think about.  
>     
>  Kelly  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:47:08 +0100  
>  From: "Anja" <anja.radlbeck@student.uni-augsburg.de>  
>  To:  WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Advice?  
>     
>  Hi Panther,  
>  Hi Wolf,  
>  Yesterday my dancing partner Claudia told me of her telling her roommate  
>  that she is (well was, its some time ago) in love with her.  
>  So from what I read much the same situation you are in.  
>     
>  1\. Here is the advice she got from her brother: "just give her some  
>  flowers as a present". That sounds like a good advice and all guys I  
>  know love flowers too.  
>     
>  2\. Even though there had been a lot of touching and intimacy between  
>  Claudia and her roommate and  the roommate telling her 'I'm bi of  
>  course', she was quite shocked by the declaration of love and they  
>  didn't get together.  
>     
>  But don't let this stop your efforts. And of course she didn't give her  
>  flowers. ...  
>     
>  Wish you luck  
>     
>  Anja  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  **Log file opened at: 12/14/98 5:05:06 PM  
>  **Channel created at Monday, December 14, 1998 5:04:04 PM  
>  **Mode change "+i" on wolf by wolf  
>  **panther (panther@mountain.rainet.com) has joined the channel #watch  
>     
>  wolf: hi.  thanks for agreeing to meet here.  
>     
>  <panther>: sure.  what's up?  no rehearsals or anything i hope.  
>     
>  wolf: no. no rehearsals.  have you told him yet?  
>     
>  <panther>: no, you?  
>     
>  wolf: no.  thinking of doing it the day after the rally after all the  
>  excitement kind of levels off.  How about you?  
>     
>  <panther>: was thinking something like that myself.  so is that what you  
>  wanted to do chat about?  
>     
>  wolf: no.  
>     
>  <panther>: you still there?  
>     
>  wolf: yes.  
>     
>  <panther>: well?  I can't just hang around waiting.  I'm at work.  It's  
>  slow here but I'm supposed to be working.  So 'chat.'  
>     
>  wolf: OK.  Do you know anything about m/m sex?  
>     
>  <panther>: you mean personally? no. not from personal experience.  I  
>  know stuff from hearing it around work.  Terms. Some descriptions.  
>     
>  <panther>: I'm in law enforcement so I hear about the not so pleasant  
>  aspects more than I want to. Why?  
>     
>  wolf: well i'm starting to panic about telling him because then i might  
>  have to deal with this sex thing and i start thinking about it  
>     
>  wolf: and my mind just freezes up so i don't know what to do  
>     
>  <panther>: you're just starting to think about the sex aspect NOW?  
>     
>  wolf: yeah.  I mean I really do love him a LOT.  I just hadn't really  
>  thought past that.  or if i did start to think past that i just sort of  
>     
>  wolf: didn't go there.  i must have used up several paper bags just to  
>  breathe after starting down that path so I'm just !!  
>     
>  <panther>: Where did you THINK this was going to go? Did you think you  
>  would declare your overwhelming love for him and then he would say 'me  
>  too'  
>     
>  <panther>: and then what?  you were just going to just go on as you  
>  always had?  or just hold hands or something?  
>     
>  <wolf>: no need to get nasty, man, i'm basically a virgin here and i'm  
>  scared and i don't know much and i'm seriously considering giving up on  
>     
>  wolf: the whole deal because i just don't know what the hell i'm doing  
>  and i was hoping you did or could give me advice but if you want to  
>     
>  <panther>: sorry sorry  
>     
>  wolf: give me a hard time  
>     
>  wolf: OK  
>     
>  <panther>: let me ask you a question.  when you imagine yourself  
>  announcing this little secret to this guy, if he said 'me too,'  
>     
>  <panther>: how long did you think the romance or the relationship would  
>  last?  Are you thinking long haul, here?  
>     
>  wolf: that's part of the problem.  when i think about my previous  
>  relationships.  they were all with women.  well they all left me.  
>     
>  wolf: either they had to leave because of circumstances or they thought  
>  i was too flaky and got mad at me and finally left.  
>     
>  wolf: but when i think about this guy, i don't really see any reason why  
>  I couldn't be friends with him forever.  the thought is pretty scary  
>     
>  wolf: and i'm not sure anyone would want to stick around with me that  
>  long.  i've never really had that.  
>     
>  <panther>: So if you are that sure you want the two of you to have  
>  something for the long term, then this sex thing is very likely to come  
>  up  
>     
>  wolf: as it were.  
>     
>  <panther>: so your question is what?  how to do it?  
>     
>  wolf: well sort of.  it's just that it sounds so gross.  
>     
>  <panther>: all of it?  
>     
>  wolf: no just some of it.  how explicit do you want me to get?  I mean  
>  you're at work, right?  
>     
>  <panther>: well, I don't want to get too crude but I can get *specific*  
>  as long as no one walks by my desk.  it's pretty quiet here  
>     
>  <panther>: and most people know not to disturb me unless it's crucial  
>  and mostly i'm supposedly doing paper work so i guess it's OK.  
>     
>  wolf: be back in a minute.  
>     
>  wolf: i'm back.  i locked the door to my office and put up a do not  
>  disturb sign.  so i guess i'm OK too.  
>     
>  <panther>: I was just wondering.  Can you remember what you thought when  
>  you first heard about het sex?  
>     
>  wolf: well sort of.  my mom started leaking the information in bits and  
>  pieces from when i was too young to even know what she was talking about  
>     
>  wolf: then when i was about 11 i didn't want her to talk to me about  
>  that stuff.  LOL I was the one who was too embarrassed.  And I didn't  
>     
>  wolf: have a dad.  so she had her boyfriend tell me the basics and later  
>  when I was older, she gave me her copy of The Joy of Sex.  
>     
>  <panther>: OK so when the boyfriend told you the basics, what did you  
>  think about the whole thing?  
>     
>  wolf: I thought the whole thing sounded pretty weird.  He wasn't really  
>  clear and I thought I was supposed to pee in the girl.  
>     
>  wolf: so the whole thing sounded really gross.  
>     
>  <panther>: so did you get over it? :)  
>     
>  wolf: well, yeah.  no need to laugh at me.  this still seems *different*  
>     
>  <panther>: so have you ever gone down on a woman?  
>     
>  <panther>: hello? you still there?  
>     
>  wolf: well, yeah.  
>     
>  <panther>: and when somebody told you about that the first time?  
>     
>  wolf: yeah, the smells and the fluids and that's where the menstrual  
>  blood comes out -- all those thoughts.  I thought I would just gag.  
>     
>  <panther>: but did that happen?  
>     
>  wolf: well no, actually it was kind of fun. they really LIKE that!  I  
>  get your point, man, but I *still* feel strange about all this and  
>     
>  wolf: i still feel pretty clueless  
>     
>  <panther>: well why don't you get a copy of the Joy of Gay Sex?  
>     
>  wolf: already did.  first thing.  i mean, at first i just had names for  
>  the acts in my head.  just the words.  no pictures.  
>     
>  wolf: it was all pretty abstract. and then I looked at their drawings  
>  and the drawings are artfully done and all but I looked at some pretty  
>     
>  wolf: basic stuff and saw this picture of a guy sticking 2 fingers in a  
>  guy's butt and it just felt so *in my face* and i just froze  
>     
>  <panther>: you're really not getting this.  You've probably done the  
>  moral equivalent of a lot of the stuff in that book.  You've probably  
>     
>  <panther>: stuck fingers and other body parts into wet orifices.  You've  
>  put your mouth on someone's privates.  
>     
>  <panther>: You've probably asked another person to put their mouth on  
>  yours.  Did anybody object to that?  
>     
>  wolf: well, yeah, sometimes.  some women are grossed out about putting  
>  their mouths on men's penises, let alone tasting semen.  
>     
>  <panther>: But some don't, right?  So it's not *objectively* 'gross'  
>  right?  
>     
>  wolf: yeah, man, you're right.  I'm mean I get this *intellectually* but  
>  I'm still pretty nervous here.  I mean you said you've never ...  either  
>     
>  wolf: so why are you so calm?  
>     
>  <panther>: actually, i've been pretty unfair.  i've been pretty nervous,  
>  too.  I've been just laying out for you the train of  
>     
>  <panther>: thought I've been on for a while.  What *I* am worried about  
>  is that my roommate will have the same panicky reaction you're having.  
>     
>  <panther>: I guess I just didn't want to think about how hard it is to  
>  go through *another* 'first time.' It's hard to face the fact  
>     
>  <panther>: that even being as 'experienced' as you think you are, there  
>  are still things that can trip you up.  and when it has to do  
>     
>  <panther>: with emotions with another person, you don't really have  
>  control over the outcome and that scares the hell out of me.  
>     
>  wolf: tell me about it!  
>     
>  <panther>: well, I guess I really haven't helped you feel any less  
>  clueless.  Sorry.  
>     
>  wolf: NO!  no you've really helped a lot.  Just needed to think about  
>  this.  You're very sort of linear in how you think about this stuff  
>     
>  wolf: it's somehow reassuring.  I actually sort of thought that because  
>  you were older, you'd be more conservative about all this  
>     
>  wolf: stuff.  but you aren't you're MUCH more together than i am.  
>     
>  <panther>: maybe age is an advantage.  You might think about the fact  
>  that your guy is older, been around longer.  Maybe he can be  
>     
>  <panther>: reassuring too. Give him a chance.  Another thing to keep in  
>  mind, is that it may be a 'first' for him, also.  He may be  
>     
>  <panther>: as nervous as you are.  
>     
>  wolf: oh, man, you are SO right.  I just don't see that sometimes  
>  because he's so .. not really *calm* .. but he just doesn't seem to  
>     
>  wolf: get afraid of things.  
>     
>  <panther>: maybe he does but he just doesn't show it.  
>     
>  wolf: yeah, actually, you've got him pegged.  The strong, silent type.  
>  The spirit of Gary Cooper lives!  
>     
>  <panther>: hey, wolf, I've been summoned.  I'm logging out.  
>     
>  wolf: bye  
>     
>  **Signoff: panther  
>  **Log closed at 6:52:12 PM  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:11:56 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A question  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf,  
>     
>  I was thinking over our most recent chat and started wondering.  If you  
>  had such an adverse reaction to the idea of m/m sex, why are you on a  
>  slash-oriented list?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:34:15 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A question  
>     
>  On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I was thinking over our most recent chat and started wondering.  If  
>  : you had such an adverse reaction to the idea of m/m sex, why are you  
>  : on a slash-oriented list?  
>     
>  That's a good question.  
>     
>  While a lot of listmembers seem to get an erotic thrill from the sex in  
>  the stories, I was drawn to the list because I identified to much with  
>  the guys on the show.  I could see the love there and felt like reading  
>  fanfic that dealt with that aspect of their relationship.  
>     
>  I didn't know who the good writers were at first and I didn't know how  
>  explicit the NC-17 stuff got.  The first time I read a PWP, I was *so*  
>  ... well 'shocked' isn't exactly the work.  I just wasn't ready for it.  
>     
>  Now I actually read the less explicit stuff or read the stories with  
>  more plot and just kind of skim the sex scenes.  
>     
>  And even when I do read those scenes, it's really just words on the  
>  page.  It's stuff somebody *else* is doing.  But there are no pictures,  
>  so it's more abstract.  And it's not me.  I guess what I'm saying is  
>  that I tend to distance myself from the action.  
>     
>  Maybe I should try to read more of this stuff to get used to the idea.  
>     
>  What do you think?  Sort of like research.  
>     
>  Catcha later,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:12:45 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Research?  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf:  
>     
>  So you say you're reading slash for research?  
>     
>  How're you coming with that?  
>     
>  ;)  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:42:54 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Research?  
>     
>  On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : So you say you're reading slash for research?  
>  :  
>  : How're you coming with that?  
>  :  
>  : ;)  
>     
>  Man, you are SO bad! ;)  
>     
>  BTW, you guys doing anything special for the holidays?  
>     
>  I'm trying to come up with a good idea for us.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:13:08 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Holidays  
>     
>  On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : BTW, you guys doing anything special for the holidays?  
>  :  
>  : I'm trying to come up with a good idea for us.  
>     
>  I don't know about 'special.'  We'll probably do what we did last year,  
>  just have dinner with friends.  
>     
>  How about you guys?  What do you usually do? Do you exchange gifts or  
>  anything like that?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:00:50 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Holidays  
>     
>  : On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : BTW, you guys doing anything special for the holidays?  
>  :  
>  : I'm trying to come up with a good idea for us.  
>     
>  On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I don't know about 'special.'  We'll probably do what we did last  
>  : year, just have dinner with friends.  
>  :  
>  : How about you guys?  What do you usually do? Do you exchange gifts or  
>  : anything like that?  
>     
>  Having dinner with friends *is* special to me.  That's what we did last  
>  year also.  
>     
>  I was just thinking that maybe I could do something extra with him.  
>  Just us, you know.  
>     
>  We've done gift exchanges, but now I feel like I want to give him  
>  something a little more, I don't know, *more.*  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:48:54 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Can't sleep  
>     
>  Hi, it's me.  
>     
>  Can't sleep.  Tried but I was having weird dreams.  
>     
>  Checked into the newsgroup and they're talking about the nature of  
>  'friendship,' 'real love,' 'sexual love,' and whether they are really  
>  different.  
>     
>  I'm just as confused as everybody else.  So I just lurked.  My  $0.02 is  
>  seriously devalued tonight.  
>     
>  Roomie is working late.  
>     
>  Feel like talking, don't know about what.  
>     
>  Are you there?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:14:09 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Can't sleep  
>     
>  On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Hi, it's me.  
>  :  
>  : Can't sleep.  Tried but I was having weird dreams.  
>  :  
>  : Checked into the newsgroup and they're talking about the nature of  
>  : 'friendship' 'real love' 'sexual love' and whether they are really  
>  : different.  
>  :  
>  : I'm just as confused as everybody else.  So I just lurked.  My  $0.02  
>  : is seriously devalued tonight  
>     
>  : Roomie is working late.  
>  :  
>  : Feel like talking, don't know about what.  
>  :  
>  :  
>  : Are you there?  
>     
>  Yeah.  I'm here.  Just about to head on home.  
>     
>  Sorry you're feeling so down.  
>     
>  What kinds of dreams?  
>     
>  I get strange dreams once in a while, too.  Sometimes they seem  
>  important.  They're not easy to interpret, though.  
>     
>  I can't really stick around to 'chat.' But maybe you can 'e' me a  
>  description of your dreams and I'll look at them in the morning when I'm  
>  fresh.  
>     
>  Writing them down is supposed to be a good thing to do.  
>     
>  Just let me know.  
>     
>  I gotta go.  I'm beat.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:07:34 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: The Stuff of Dreams  
>     
>  : On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Hi, it's me.  
>  :  
>  : Can't sleep.  Tried but I was having weird dreams.  
>     
>   On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : What kinds of dreams?  
>  :  
>  : I get strange dreams once in a while, too.  Sometimes they seem  
>  : important.  They're not easy to interpret, though.  
>  :  
>  : I can't really stick around to 'chat.' But maybe you can 'e' me a  
>  : description of your dreams and I'll look at them in the morning when  
>  : I'm fresh.  
>     
>  Actually, I don't need to have them interpreted for me.  I can do that.  
>  It's just that they keep waking me up.  
>     
>  Here's one:  
>     
>  I'm swimming in a lake.  I get out of the water and I'm in a forest.  
>  There's this beautiful oak tree. [Did you know that many pre-Christian  
>  Europeans worshipped trees?]  
>     
>  Anyway, the tree starts to change shape.  It turns into a carved statue  
>  of a tall, muscular man.  I realize that it's my roomie.  
>     
>  Then lightening flashes and the forest turns into a jungle and slowly  
>  the statue starts to become flesh, come to life.  
>     
>  But then all of a sudden I'm standing there staring at the very  
>  'statuesque' RuPaul.  
>     
>  I think "What the fuck?!" and wake up.  
>     
>  Not really scary or anything.  Just weird and disorienting.  
>     
>  Well, thanks for writing back.  
>     
>  Gonna try sleep again.  I guess I'll just have to think of the dreams as  
>  entertainment.  Might work.  
>     
>  Going to the mental movies.  Yeah.  
>     
>  Catcha later,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:56:10 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Re: The Stuff of Dreams  
>     
>  :    On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : I can't really stick around to 'chat.' But maybe you can 'e' me a  
>  : description of your dreams and I'll look at them in the morning when  
>  : I'm fresh.  
>     
>    On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Actually, I don't need to have them interpreted for me.  I can do  
>  : that.  It's just that they keep waking me up.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : Then lightening flashes and the forest turns into a jungle and slowly  
>  : the statue starts to become flesh, come to life.  
>  :  
>  : But then all of a sudden I'm standing there staring at the very  
>  : 'statuesque' RuPaul.  
>  :  
>  : I think "What the fuck?!" and wake up.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : I guess I'll just have to think of the dreams as entertainment.  Might  
>  : work.  
>  :  
>  : Going to the mental movies.  Yeah.  
>     
>  LOL!  
>     
>  RuPaul at the movies.  
>     
>  None of my dreams are this funny!  
>     
>  I think I read somewhere that oak trees were some sort of symbol of  
>  masculinity or masculine strength or something.  
>     
>  My book didn't mention RuPaul, though. :)  
>     
>  Hey, Wolf, have you thought of what to give him for the holidays?  
>     
>  Not RuPaul, your friend.  :)  
>     
>  I'm trying to decide between something practical and something more ...  
>  emotional.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:22:14 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Gifts  
>     
>  On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Hey, Wolf, have you thought of what to give him for the holidays?  
>  : I'm trying to decide between something practical and something more  
>  :... emotional.  
>     
>  Well, you could always pull a Mulder and give him a "really cool key  
>  chain."  
>     
>  This might especially work if there were a key on it.  
>     
>  Key to your heart.  [Too mushy?]  
>     
>  Key to your car?  
>     
>  I've read that if a guy lets you drive his car, it's like ... he's  
>  giving a part of himself.  Don't know if you're like that.  Do you ever  
>  let him use your car?  Or drive it when you're in it?  
>     
>  Never mind.  It's a weird tangent.  
>     
>  I'm pretty burnt out today.  Not enough sleep.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:55:47 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Re: The Stuff of Dreams  
>     
>    On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Actually, I don't need to have them interpreted for me.  I can do  
>  :that.  It's just that they keep waking me up.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : Then lightening flashes and the forest turns into a jungle and slowly  
>  : the statue starts to become flesh, come to life.  But then all of a  
>  : sudden I'm standing there staring at the very 'statuesque' RuPaul.  
>  :  
>  : I think "What the fuck?!" and wake up.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I realized that it probably wasn't fair to have you reveal your dreams  
>  and not let you see mine.  [I shouldn't have laughed at the "RuPaul"  
>  thing, either.]  
>     
>  This past weekend I had a pretty strange dream also.  It was like some  
>  of my other 'portentous' dreams, which entail talking, wild animals [no  
>  Dr. Doolittle jokes, please].  
>     
>  Here it is:  
>     
>  I was out in the middle of someplace where no house or other building  
>  was in sight.  There was a fenced-in field.  I was busily, carefully  
>  rebuilding a section of the fence.  The posts were about 2 1/2 inches in  
>  diameter and the cross-wise pieces were about 6 inches wide and 8 feet  
>  long.  
>     
>  All of a sudden, I hear a creaking noise from the distance of about a  
>  football field away.  I turn and see my roomie, dressed like Charlton  
>  Heston in one of those Biblical epics, and what he is doing is using his  
>  bare hands to peel off the fencing from the posts.  One by one.  
>     
>  He collects a few pieces of fencing and places them in a huge rock-ring,  
>  like he's going to use them to build a campfire.  
>     
>  Then he uproots one of the posts and, using a hatchet, splits it and  
>  hacks it up.  
>     
>  He takes a couple of pieces over to the rock-ring and starts rubbing  
>  them together.  Soon sparks erupt from the sticks and the fire is lit.  
>     
>  I start to walk over to him to ask him what he thought he was doing -  
>  undoing all my work -- what gave him the right.  
>     
>  But before I can get there, he uproots another post and holds it up like  
>  a walking stick and begins walking towards me.  
>     
>  When we meet in the middle, I look in his eyes and see sparks or  
>  lightening or something.  He doesn't really look like his normal self.  
>  He reminds me of somebody like Merlin.  
>     
>  All of a sudden, a *huge* blue snake appears, coiling and spiraling  
>  itself around the walking stick.  
>     
>  Then I hear his voice coming from the snake's mouth asking me a  
>  question.  Even though I can't understand the snake's language, I know  
>  through a kind of telepathy that he's asking why I bother to re-build  
>  these fences.  He points out that the wood is weak and old so they don't  
>  really serve the purpose.  And there isn't anybody out there.  
>     
>  So I follow him back to the campfire and add pieces of fences to it.  
>     
>  The snake seemed to disappear or *become* the walking stick.  
>     
>  We added the stick to the fire, which flamed higher until I had to look  
>  up to see the top of the flames.  
>     
>  And that's it.  
>     
>  Not quite as entertaining as RuPaul, but we have talking snakes... :)  
>     
>  What do you think?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  Date: Tues, 15 Dec 1998, 10:30 PM  
>     
>  "Hey Jim, whatcha watchin'?"  
>     
>  "Nothin' yet.  Just surfing."  
>     
>  "So, Jim, have you read any of the X-Files fanfic I gave you?"  
>     
>  "Some of it."  
>     
>  "Any of the Mulder/Skinner stuff?"  
>     
>  "Well, I started some but lost interest.  I decided I preferred to stick  
>  to Mulder/Scully."  
>     
>  "Did the slashiness bother you?"  
>     
>  "No, Sandburg.  I told you that before.  I can understand wanting them  
>  to get together.  They do seem to feel a great deal of affection for  
>  each other.  It's just that I don't think it's appropriate for a boss to  
>  have a romantic relationship with his subordinate.  
>     
>  "I prefer a relationship that is more on an equal footing.  Where they  
>  are sort of complementary as partners and socially equal.  I think  
>  Mulder and Scully are like that."  
>     
>  "What about the guys on The Watchman?"  
>     
>  "Those guys are a lot like Mulder and Scully in that way.  And they  
>  definitely feel a lot of affection for each other.  So yeah, I can see  
>  the possibility of that kind of relationship between those guys."  
>     
>  "So, Jim, have you ever had that kind of relationship with a guy?"  
>     
>  "You mean a sexual one, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yeah."  
>     
>  "Nope. Have you?"  
>     
>  "No. .... Have you ever thought about it?"  
>     
>  "Yes.  ... Have you?"  
>     
>  "Yes.  
>     
>  "So... you just taking a poll, Chief?  Or do you have a point?"  
>     
>  "Just wondering... Find anything good on TV?"  
>     
>  "Nah.  I think I'll just pack it in."  
>     
>  "Me too."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998, 11:30 a.m.  
>     
>  "Sandy, this will be my first Christmas in the States and I was  
>  thinking of having a little holiday get-together at my place Saturday  
>  evening. Just a few friends.  Do you think you and Jim might want to  
>  join us?"  
>     
>  "Wow, that's really nice, Megan.  Thanks. I'll pass the word on to Jim  
>  and let you know."  
>     
>  "Fine.  Oh, I forgot, you can bring a date or an S O, whatever ..."  
>     
>  "Oh.  Well, I haven't really been dating lately, so I guess it'll just  
>  be me."  
>     
>  "What about Jim?"  
>     
>  "I don't think he's been dating much either."  
>     
>  "No, I mean ... oh, never mind .... Well, just let me know."  
>     
>  "Will do, Megan."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:59:15 PST  
>  From: "tracy l" <canetr@hotmail.com>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com, smallet@sfsu.edu  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Friendship vs. Love  
>     
>  I have been following the love vs. friendship thread on WatchAD with  
>  great interest.  Both Wolf and Panther have mentioned on this list that  
>  they are having feelings for their respective roommates.  
>     
>  So, are either of you willing to tell us how your friendship developed  
>  into love and whether this love will turn into a "sexual" love?  
>     
>  Tracy  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Friendship vs. Love  
>     
>  On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, tracy l wrote:  
>     
>  : I have been following the love vs. friendship thread on WatchAD with  
>  : great interest.  Both Wolf and Panther have mentioned on this list  
>  : that they are having feelings for their respective roommates.  
>  :  
>  : So, are either of you willing to tell us how your friendship developed  
>  : into love and whether this love will turn into a "sexual" love?  
>     
>  I'd like to add to this thread but I'm hesitant to do so for a couple of  
>  reasons.  
>     
>  For one thing, I am *so* not able to pin these terms down and define  
>  them.  
>     
>  Considering that I never thought I'd apply some of these terms to a  
>  relationship with a guy, [not that I thought I wouldn't, just that I had  
>  never thought about it] you can imagine how this messes with my previous  
>  conceptions and definitions.  
>     
>  Also, I can't be too specific in describing our relationship because I  
>  need to protect our privacy.  
>     
>  That's why I use an ISP which allows aliases and protects against  
>  'finger' searches.  That's also why I haven't told the list the name of  
>  my city and have been careful not to name my roommate.  
>     
>  As much as I feel warm feelings for my listsibs, especially those who  
>  have given me so much support in all this, I have needed to protect us  
>  against accidental discovery.  It would not be safe for either of us if  
>  the wrong people found out about my feelings.  
>     
>  That said, I'll try to answer Tracy's questions.  
>     
>  At first, I would say that what I felt was a kind of hero-worship that I  
>  developed quickly due to his amazing talent. [No, not *that* kind of  
>  'talent,' you slash sluts ;)]  
>     
>  Also, I think I looked up to him like a big brother or father figure.  I  
>  never had a father or a brother so I really felt that was lacking.  He  
>  knows so much, has been through so much in his life.  
>     
>  I think we began sort of bonding because we needed each other.  We  
>  depended on each other, but for different things.  
>     
>  But then, we started just doing more things together, spending more time  
>  having fun together.  We just flat out enjoy each other's company.  
>     
>  It has been sort of an evolution so that one day I realized that really  
>  he had become my family, my home.  
>     
>  There is a way in which we've already 'become one.' It's in little  
>  things:  
>     
>  We get ready to go somewhere, and if he grabs his jacket, he hands me  
>  mine.  It's like his-coat/my-coat are one coat.  
>     
>  He starts to pour coffee and fills my cup too.  My cup and his are one  
>  cup to him.  
>     
>  Once he wanted me to feel the finish on something, like a piece of  
>  furniture, and he held my hand and guided it along.  His hand and mine  
>  were one hand.  
>     
>  Sometimes when we walk down the street, we walk shoulder to shoulder, my  
>  entire upper body staying in contact with his.  We move like one person.  
>     
>  I love him for a multitude of reasons -- his intelligence, sensitivity,  
>  sense of humor. He's very down to earth.  He's protective of me without  
>  being condescending.  And he really *sees* who I am and still likes me.  
>     
>  The relationship has not become a sexual one.  I haven't even told him  
>  that I'm "in love" with him.  
>     
>  I'm still trying to figure out when the right time would be and what  
>  words would be the right ones for making that revelation.  
>     
>  And I'd be nervous no matter what he said.  
>     
>  If he says he *is* interested, then the whole sex issue makes me really  
>  nervous and if he isn't interested in me, then we'll be pretty awkward  
>  for a while and we'll lose that easy closeness we've developed.  
>     
>  So there it is.  
>     
>  I don't think I've pinned down any definitions for the words "love" or  
>  "friendship," though..  
>     
>  Who's next?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:46:43 -0To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Friendship vs. Love  
>     
>  : On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, tracy l wrote:  
>  :  
>  : I have been following the love vs. friendship thread on WatchAD with  
>  : great interest.  Both Wolf and Panther have mentioned on this list  
>  : that they are having feelings for their respective roommates.  
>     
>  : So, are either of you willing to tell us how your friendship developed  
>  into love and whether this love will turn into a "sexual" love?  
>     
>    On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I'd like to add to this thread but I'm hesitant to do so for a couple  
>  : of reasons.  
>  :  
>  : For one thing, I am *so* not able to pin these terms down and define  
>  : them.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : Also, I can't be too specific in describing our relationship because I  
>  : need to protect our privacy.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : That said, I'll try to answer Tracy's questions.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : The relationship has not become a sexual one.  I haven't even told him  
>  : that I'm "in love" with him.  
>  :  
>  : I'm still trying to figure out when the right time would be and what  
>  : words would be the right ones for making that revelation.  
>  :  
>  : And I'd be nervous no matter what he said.  
>  :  
>  : If he says he *is* interested, then the whole sex issue makes me  
>  : really nervous and if he isn't interested in me, then we'll be pretty  
>  : awkward for a while and we'll lose that easy  
>  : closeness we've developed.  
>     
>  When I saw Tracy's question, I resisted answering at first because of  
>  the same concerns Wolf has expressed here. That and this stuff is so  
>  personal that I'm not sure how appropriate it is to discuss it on a  
>  semi-public list like this.  I'm a pretty private guy.  
>     
>  But I didn't want Wolf to be alone in exposing his feelings, so I will  
>  join him here.  I'll just stay general enough so I can be comfortable  
>  discussing it.  
>     
>  My feelings for my friend are similar to the ones Wolf has for his  
>  roommate.  Not identical but similar.  I think different circumstances  
>  evoke different emotions, maybe.  
>     
>  We didn't start out comfortably.  I needed his help and I resented him  
>  for it.  I was pretty cold to him at first.  
>     
>  And he was so incredibly different from me and so *young* that I  
>  couldn't see that we had that much in common.  
>     
>  But any guff I aimed at him at first just rolled off him like water off  
>  a duck's back.  It's not like he accepted the abuse; it's more like he  
>  saw through it, like he knew that it didn't mean anything about *him,*  
>  that it said more about the state of my soul at the time.  
>     
>  I was soul-sick and over time he's ministered to me, healing me.  
>     
>  But at first, I'm sure our friends saw us as the unlikeliest pair of  
>  friends imaginable.  We resembled no less than a pairing of Oscar the  
>  Grouch and Elmo.  
>     
>  But that changed pretty quickly. There is just something so *likeable*  
>  about the guy.  
>     
>  Wolf mentions wishing he had had a brother and finding one in his  
>  friend.  
>     
>  Well, I did grow up with a little brother.  But due to circumstances I  
>  don't wish to discuss, we haven't gotten along too well.  When my friend  
>  and I became roommates, it was like I got a second chance.  
>     
>  Wolf speaks of the two of them 'becoming one.'  
>     
>  In my case, I feel as though my roommate is part of me.  A vital part.  
>  Like if I lost him, I'd die.  
>     
>  I love him for his unusual intelligence, enthusiasm, energy, compassion,  
>  and loyalty.  
>     
>  For the fact that he forges ahead unintimidated by much of anything.  In  
>  fact, in that sense, he is truly heroic.  
>     
>  I can't really trace the whens and hows of the changes the way Wolf did.  
>  I just know that they happened.  
>     
>  Someone else on the list asked whether friends *should* move to 'the  
>  next step.' That is a question I ask myself daily.  
>     
>  I don't know what will happen with this friendship.  I'm guessing I'm  
>  just as nervous as Wolf is in his situation.  
>     
>  I sometimes wish it were my roommate who was in my position.  Maybe he'd  
>  know what to do.  Maybe he'd be less daunted by all this stuff.  
>     
>  There you have it.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998, 7:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim, call Megan."  
>     
>  "What about, Chief?"  
>     
>  "She's invited us to her place Saturday.  Just a small get-together for  
>  the holidays with a few friends.  She wants to know if you want to go."  
>     
>  "Are we supposed to bring anything?"  
>     
>  "She didn't say.  Oh, yeah, she said we could bring dates.  But I told  
>  her I haven't been dating much lately so I'll just, y'know, go  
>  dateless."  
>     
>  "You haven't been dating?"  
>     
>  "Not for a while.  How about you?"  
>     
>  "It's been a long while."  
>     
>  "Well, we don't *have* to take anybody. It could be just us."  
>     
>  "Fine with me.  OK, I'll give her a call.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:41:11 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Thanks  
>     
>     On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : When I saw Tracy's question, I resisted answering at first because of  
>  : the same concerns Wolf has expressed here. That and this stuff is so  
>  : personal that I'm not sure how appropriate it is to discuss it on a  
>  : semi-public list like this.  I'm a pretty private guy.  
>  :  
>  : But I didn't want Wolf to be alone in exposing his feelings, so I will  
>  : join him here.  I'll just stay general enough so I can be comfortable  
>  : discussing it  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  It is SO cool that you did this!  
>     
>  I'm really ... I don't know ... *touched* that you would open up so much  
>  just so I wouldn't be so alone out there.  Considering how private you  
>  seem to be, this must have been really hard!  
>     
>  Just wanted to say that.  
>     
>  You're a really great guy.  I hope your friend appreciates you.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998, 11:45 a.m.  
>     
>  "Hi, Jim.  Did Sandy talk to you?"  
>     
>  "Yeah.  He mentioned your party Saturday."  
>     
>  "Are the two of you coming?"  
>     
>  "Sure.  Should we bring anything?"  
>     
>  "Maybe a beverage... May I ask a question?"  
>     
>  "What, Connor?"  
>     
>  "Sandy said that he hasn't been dating lately."  
>     
>  "Yeah ... and?"  
>     
>  "Do you think he'd appreciate my introducing him to a friend of mine?"  
>     
>  "You mean, like a blind date?"  
>     
>  "Well, no.  Just an introduction.  She's a very nice person and quite  
>  smart.  A student at the university."  
>     
>  "Do what you want, Connor.  He's an adult.  He can decide what he wants.  
>  I don't have anything to do with it."  
>     
>  "Well, I just thought, since you're so close to him that you might know  
>  ..."  
>     
>  "Connor, it's not up to me.  Can we just get off this?"  
>     
>  "Sorry, Jim.  I didn't know this topic was ..."  
>     
>  "It's closed."  
>     
>  "OK.  Well, give my regards to Sandy."  
>     
>  "I'll do that."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:16:01 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Research?  
>     
>    On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : So you say you're reading slash for research?  
>  :  
>  : How're you coming with that?  
>     
>  Well, it's very sort of interesting really.  
>     
>  I sort of snuck up on it, first reading some PG-13 stuff, then R, then  
>  NC-17.  At that point, I found that I was skimming the stuff pretty  
>  fast.  
>     
>  So I forced myself to slow down and really *read* the passages I had  
>  been skimming.  And I noticed that the truly graphic stuff started to  
>  look all the same, no matter what the rest of the story was about.  And  
>  there is something about the repetition that makes it less ...  shocking  
>  .. or something.  
>     
>  But then my mind started wandering and I was wondering how accurate the  
>  descriptions really were.  As I understand it, most of the writers are  
>  not men.  I mean these are writers without penises or prostates writing  
>  about these same body parts.  
>     
>  The other thing that just sort of jumped into my mind [and yes, I should  
>  have thought about this before, but I didn't] is that I had been  
>  thinking about this [when I *could* bring myself to think about this]  
>  as*me* doing *him.* But it could go the other way.  I mean, to be fair,  
>  it*should* go both ways, shouldn't it?  
>     
>  So yes I've been doing 'research' and mostly it's made the whole thing  
>  just more concrete and less 'unknown.' I guess that's a step.  
>     
>  You've never really said how you feel about this stuff.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998, 4:45 p.m.  
>     
>  "Megan, hi!"  
>     
>  "Sandy, may I ask you a question?"  
>     
>  "Sure."  
>     
>  "Well, I was wondering, since you're not really seeing anyone at the  
>  moment... maybe you would be willing to meet a friend of mine?"  
>     
>  "Megan! Matchmaking -- *you*?"  
>     
>  "Well, yes.  I wouldn't normally do this but she's new in town and ..."  
>     
>  "I'm sorry, Megan.  I'm sure she's really nice, but I think I should say  
>  'no.'"  
>     
>  "Then, you *are* seeing someone? ... Oh, sorry, none of my business."  
>     
>  "Thanks."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:54:54 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Re: The Stuff of Dreams  
>     
>    On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Wolf,  
>  :  
>  :  [snip]  
>  :  
>  : This past weekend I had a pretty strange dream also.  It was like some  
>  : of my other 'portentous' dreams, which entail talking, wild animals  
>  : [no Dr. Doolittle jokes, please].  
>  :  
>  : Here it is:  
>  : [Description of dream snipped]  
>  :  
>  : Not quite as entertaining as RuPaul, but we have talking snakes...  
>  : :)  
>  : What do you think?  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  That was a way cool dream!  
>     
>  Do you really think of your roommate as wise or intuitive?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:28:52 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Research?  
>     
>  On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  :  I mean these are writers without penises or prostates writing about  
>  : these same body parts.  
>  :  
>  : The other thing that just sort of jumped into my mind [and yes, I  
>  : L should have thought about this before, but I didn't] is that I had  
>  : been thinking about this [when I *could* bring myself to think about  
>  : this] as *me* doing *him.* But it could go the other way.  I :mean, to  
>  : be fair, it *should* go both ways, shouldn't it?  
>  :  
>  : So yes I've been doing 'research' and mostly it's made the whole thing  
>  : just more concrete and less 'unknown.' I guess that's a step.  
>  :  
>  : You've never really said how you feel about this stuff.  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I never thought I'd say this, but you really are getting too hung up in  
>  the details.  You need to back up and look at the big picture.  
>     
>  In the big picture this isn't *about* body parts and 'doing' somebody.  
>     
>  At least not for me.  
>     
>  Maybe that's why I have the same reaction to some of those portions of  
>  fanfic that you do.  
>     
>  In those stories, it's almost like first the camera is across the table  
>  from them, then in their faces, and then somehow gets stuck up their  
>  backsides.  I'm no longer looking at a whole person at that point.  
>     
>  When you explained what you loved about the guy, you didn't talk about  
>  his body parts.  In fact, you didn't even talk about what he looked  
>  like. [Unless maybe he looks like an oak tree or RuPaul :)]  
>     
>  You talked about him 'really *seeing* you' and 'being protective' and  
>  things like that.  
>     
>  Well, if he does really see you, he'll know that you're nervous.  
>     
>  And if it's mutual and he's protective, then he's likely to help you  
>  through this.  
>     
>  So I think you should just lay off the 'research' and start thinking  
>  about talking to your *friend.*  
>     
>  Don't mean to sound so harsh.  I'm nervous too.  
>     
>  For me, physical stuff is not that difficult; it's the talking.  
>     
>  Anyway, you asked me what I thought, so there it is.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:25:04 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Dream  
>     
>  On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : That was a way cool dream!  
>  :  
>  : Do you really think of your roommate as wise or intuitive?  
>     
>  Intuitive, yes.  Most definitely.  
>     
>  But wise?  I've never thought about that.  
>     
>  It's hard to think of him as 'wise' when he's so young and so immature  
>  at times.  But he knows a lot and loves to explain things.  
>     
>  Maybe he's a 'wise man in training'  :)  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>     
>  **Log file opened at: 12/17/98 10:05:06 PM  
>  **Channel created at Thursday, December 17, 1998 10:04:04 PM  
>  **Mode change "+i" on panther by panther  
>  **wolf (wolf@rain.washnet.com) has joined the channel #watch  
>     
>  panther: hi  
>     
>  <wolf>: never would have thought *you* woulda asked for a chat.  
>     
>  panther: yeah, well, i couldn't sleep and stuff is on my mind.  Where  
>  are you?  
>     
>  <wolf>: in my office.  where are you?  
>     
>  panther: went back to work.  
>     
>  <wolf>: so what's on your mind?  you told him, yet?  
>     
>  panther: no, not yet.  did you ever wonder if you really *know* him?  
>     
>  <wolf>: you mean like does he have secrets?  
>     
>  panther: not exactly.  like you go along thinking you know a guy and  
>  he's not the way he used to be.  like he changed.  not all at once.  
>     
>  panther: just a little bit at a time over a few years until he's  
>  different but your mind hasn't really caught up to reality.  
>     
>  <wolf>: that sort of makes sense.  it's kind of like when you look in  
>  the mirror and realize that you haven't really looked at your own face  
>     
>  <wolf>: for a while and then there are these lines around your mouth and  
>  eyes that didn't used to be there.  But the picture of yourself  
>     
>  <wolf>: that you carry around inside is maybe 5 years younger.  and it's  
>  a shock when they don't match -- the inner picture and the outer image.  
>     
>  panther: well, my inner picture is about 20 years younger :)  
>     
>  panther: but yeah it's something like that.  over the past month or so,  
>  i've been finding out that my roommate has changed in some of his  
>     
>  panther: behavior and i didn't even notice.  he's gotten a lot more  
>  serious, for one thing.  
>     
>  <wolf>: and this is a problem because...?  
>     
>  panther: i guess it's not a problem.  but i've been making assumptions  
>  about how he'd take my 'confession' based on what turns out to be  
>     
>  panther: false information.  
>     
>  <wolf>: like what? did he suddenly burst out of a closet or something?  
>     
>  panther: nothing like that.  let's just say that i was wrong about the  
>  idea that he'd only drool over women.  
>     
>  <wolf>: well, that's good news -- right?  
>     
>  panther: but he doesn't seem to be drooling over anyone at the moment.  
>  it's like he's totally shut down that part of his social life.  
>     
>  <wolf>: does he seem, like, *depressed,* like his libido is suppressed?  
>     
>  panther: no, i don't think so.  it's just that he used to have this  
>  really active social life and now ... he doesn't.  
>     
>  <wolf>: well, maybe he's just getting older.  I party a lot less now,  
>  myself, than i did about 5 years ago.  i'm just too busy working.  
>     
>  panther: did you stop 'drooling'?  
>     
>  <wolf>: that presumes i ever did. ;)  well, no i didn't stop.  it's more  
>  like i'm quieter about it now.  i'm still appreciative of beauty  
>     
>  <wolf>: but really i sort of narrowed my interests.  maybe that's  
>  something that naturally happens at my age.  but wouldn't you know that?  
>     
>  panther: i think i was always a lot more serious than this guy and my  
>  life experiences have been very different from his, so i can't really  
>     
>  panther: judge him by me. i'm just wondering why i never noticed the  
>  changes while they were happening. there must have been clues but i  
>  missed them.  
>     
>  <wolf>: it's well known that our preconceptions about a person keeps us  
>  from picking up on those sorts of things.  
>     
>  <wolf>: my roomie has surprised me a bit, also.  i thought for sure he'd  
>  be disgusted by the idea of slash, but he wasn't.  not at all.  
>     
>  <wolf>: it's made me re-evaluate how worried i should be.  
>     
>  panther: so why are you waiting until January to tell him?  
>     
>  <wolf>: well, i don't know.  assuming we get to go to LA, i was just  
>  thinking it would be better if it was all part of the adventure.  
>     
>  <wolf>: you don't think so?  
>     
>  panther: why not Christmas or New Year's? Why not tonight?  
>     
>  <wolf>: not ready.  are you?  
>     
>  panther: no.  i'm worried that if he's not really who i thought he was  
>  ... well, then who is he?  
>     
>  <wolf>: well, he can't be *that* different.  you're not looking for the  
>  pod, are you?  
>     
>  panther: no pods. :)  But i really start to wonder about *me* I'm  
>  supposed to be good at *seeing* things, but i missed this.  
>     
>  <wolf>: this stuff is pretty normal.  We both need to start looking with  
>  open minds, with new eyes.  
>     
>  <wolf>: it's getting kinda late.  I better log off.  
>     
>  panther: OK  
>     
>  **Signoff: wolf  
>  **Log closed at 10:52:12 PM  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:33:04 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: How do you know?  
>     
>  I was thinking about our chat last night and started worrying.  
>     
>  If you don't notice that a guy has changed, has become different from  
>  the way you remember him -- then how do you know that you really  
>  love*him* and not this old memory?  
>     
>  I don't want to spill my guts and then discover that I'm talking to the  
>  wrong guy.  You know what I mean?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:45:42 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: How do you know?  
>     
>  On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I was thinking about our chat last night and started worrying.  
>  :  
>  : If you don't notice that a guy has changed, has become different from  
>  : the way you remember him -- then how do you know that you really love  
>  : *him* and not this old memory?  
>  :  
>  : I don't want to spill my guts and then discover that I'm talking to  
>  : the wrong guy.  You know what I mean?  
>     
>  Hey, Panther,  
>     
>  I think it's *my* turn to say 'get a grip.'  
>     
>  I mean, how different is he *really*?  
>     
>  Think about all the things you've said about him -- the stuff that draws  
>  you to him.  
>     
>  You said he's become more 'serious,' parties less, could possibly be  
>  attracted to men as well as women.  
>     
>  Does this really change him?  
>     
>  Is he any less intelligent, energetic, enthusiastic, compassionate,  
>  loyal, nurturing, dauntless?  
>     
>  Those are the things you named.  
>     
>  Now you can add 'serious' and 'open-minded' to the list -- right?  
>     
>  I really don't see the problem.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998, 7:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey Jim!  We're a trend!"  
>     
>  "What trend would that be, Sandburg?  There been a rash of sentinel-  
>  anthropologist partnerships?"  
>     
>  "Hey, that would be great!  But no, that's not it.  I've just read this  
>  fascinating article that my colleague Meredith wrote.  She's great, Jim,  
>  you would really like her.  Maybe she'll stop by on her way to Alaska,  
>  when she does her field study."  
>     
>  "And Meredith says we're a trend?  How does she even know about us?"  
>     
>  "Well, not US-us.  Just people like us.  This is what she said:  
>     
>  There's a current trend in the US away from spending the holidays  
>  with family and toward spending it with localized groups of  
>  friends and acquaintances -- mostly as a result of neolocal  
>  residence patterns and the rising price of transportation between  
>  distant locations.  
>     
>  "That's us!"  
>     
>  "'Neolocal residence patterns'?  Don't you anthropologists speak  
>  English?"  
>     
>  "That *is* English, Jim.  Basically, what she's saying is that people in  
>  the U.S. have been moving farther and farther away from their homes of  
>  origin, and they have all spread out.  It's sort of like a familial  
>  diaspora.  
>     
>  "And because they live so far away and it's starting to cost more than  
>  it used to to go 'home' for the holidays, many people are opting not to  
>  go.  
>     
>  "But they want to celebrate and feel a sense of 'family' so they are  
>  adopting their close friends and sometimes co-workers as sort of  
>  surrogate family members.  
>     
>  That's us!"  
>     
>  "You think of me as 'family,' Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, of course!  Didn't you *know* that?"  
>     
>  "Now that you point it out, yeah, I did, I just hadn't put it into words  
>  for myself, before. ... Family -- that's great.  I like that.  
>     
>  "So which surrogate family member *am* I, Chief?  You *can't* mean I'm a  
>  stand-in for *Naomi.*"  
>     
>  "<cough-cough> Jim, don't say stuff like that when I'm drinking, man!  
>  No, I would say that only Naomi can do 'Naomi.'"  
>     
>  "I hear that."  
>     
>  "Very funny, Jim.  
>     
>  "There must be *something* I can offer you in her absence, Chief.  In  
>  fact, I know *just* the thing!  I know it's your favorite!"  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "What would you say to 'tongue,' Chief? ... Chief?"  
>     
>  "<blink blink> That would be great, Jim."  
>     
>  "You OK?"  
>     
>  "I'm just ... thanks, Jim."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998, About 9:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "Nice party, Connor."  
>     
>  "Why, *thanks,* Jim.  Glad you're having a good time."  
>     
>  "So ... is *she* the one you're trying to fix Sandburg up with?"  
>     
>  "No, my friend couldn't make it tonight.  But it wouldn't have worked  
>  out, anyway."  
>     
>  "Why not?  Sandburg turn out not to be her type?"  
>     
>  "Well, I had rather thought that Sandy was *exactly* her type.  And that  
>  he would go for *her.* But he wasn't interested, so I didn't push him."  
>     
>  "Wasn't interested?  Sandburg?  You've got to be kidding."  
>     
>  "No.  I asked him if he'd be willing to meet her and he said 'no.'"  
>     
>  "No?"  
>     
>  "That's right.  He didn't say, exactly, but I got the impression there  
>  was somebody else."  
>     
>  "Somebody else?"  
>     
>  "Well, I could be wrong."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998, 7:45 p.m.  
>     
>  "I thought you said you weren't dating, Chief."  
>     
>  "I'm not."  
>     
>  "Well, Connor must've gotten it wrong, then."  
>     
>  "Gotten *what* wrong, Jim?"  
>     
>  "The other day, before the party, she was sort of getting my opinion  
>  about whether she should set you up with some woman friend of hers and -  
>  -"  
>     
>  "Oh, yeah, she was trying to play 'matchmaker,' but I told her 'no.'"  
>     
>  "That's what she told me, but she seemed to have the impression that you  
>  were involved with someone and that was why.  But you said you weren't  
>  dating."  
>     
>  "And that's true."  
>     
>  "What's true?"  
>     
>  "All of it.  Well sort of.  I'm *interested* in someone.  A *lot*.  But  
>  I don't think they'd be interested in me so I'm very sorta hesitant to  
>  approach them.  So we're not dating."  
>     
>  "You mean you would turn down someone else even though there's nothing  
>  actually going on ..."  
>     
>  "Yeah, Jim."  
>     
>  "This is new for you -- I'm surprised."  
>     
>  "Yeah, the whole thing is really new for me.  I'm just working up the  
>  nerve to tell them.  Eventually."  
>     
>  "Must be really important."  
>     
>  "Yeah.  I think they may really be 'the one.'"  
>     
>  "oh."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Nothing, Chief.  Hope it all works out for you."  
>     
>  "Hope so too."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:05:00 PST  
>  From: tracy l <canetr@hotmail.com>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Have you told your roomie yet?  (was Friendship vs.  
>  Love)  
>     
>  Hi there Panther and Wolf,  
>     
>  Haven't heard from you two lately.  Is everything OK?  I think you were  
>  both contemplating talking to your roommate about your feelings. It  
>  seems to me that the holiday season of peace and goodwill is a great  
>  time to open up to your roomies about your feelings.  
>     
>  Have a wonderful holiday season.  
>     
>  Tracy  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:15:42 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: He who hesitates ...  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I blew it.  I waited too long and now it seems as though he's found  
>  someone else.  
>     
>  Don't make the same mistake.  Then, maybe at least *one* of us can be  
>  happy.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:43:46 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: He who hesitates ...  
>     
>  On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I blew it.  I waited too long and now it seems as though he's found  
>  : someone else.  
>  :  
>  : Don't make the same mistake.  Then, maybe at least *one* of us can be  
>  : happy.  
>     
>  Oh, man, Panther.  
>     
>  I'm *so* sorry to hear this.  
>     
>  I guess you're not going to want to tell him, now.  
>     
>  Are you still going to try to go to the rally?  Maybe we can  
>  commiserate.  Go out for beer, or something.  
>     
>  If you need to talk, just write me -- OK?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998, 7:15 p.m.  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Hmm?"  
>     
>  "I know things didn't really work out with Carolyn and all, but have you  
>  ever thought about ... finding someone ... ?"  
>     
>  "I don't know, Chief, I'm getting kind of old."  
>     
>  "Jim, man, you are *so* not old! I can't believe you think that.  That's  
>  gotta be, like, an excuse or something."  
>     
>  "Well, it's easier than thinking about how my relationships don't go  
>  very far."  
>     
>  "Have you *tried* to find anybody?  Or been *interested* in anybody?"  
>     
>  "Have been interested -- for a while now -- but it seems as though it's  
>  been one-sided."  
>     
>  "Oh, man, Jim -- that sucks.  I *so* know how that is.  I'm there  
>  myself.  Well, whoever it is -- it's *their* loss -- that's all I can  
>  say."  
>     
>  "Thanks for the vote of confidence, Chief."  
>     
>  "Anytime, Jim.  I'm your partner, with you all the way.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998, about 8:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim."  
>     
>  "What is it, Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "Well, I was thinking -- "  
>     
>  "Always a dangerous moment..."  
>     
>  "Very funny, Jim.  As I was saying, when I was so rudely interrupted ...  
>  I was thinking that since we're both suffering from the tortures of  
>  unrequited love ..."  
>     
>  "What, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, I was thinking we could just sort of hang out together on  
>  Christmas.  Sort of give each other some moral support.  After all,  
>  we're like family now -- right?"  
>     
>  "Haven't had much luck with family, either, Chief.  Guess you'll have to  
>  take the lead on that."  
>     
>  "Well, my experience with family is not particularly typical.  Naomi and  
>  I have been more like good friends than mother and son.  So that's my  
>  model.  It's like the categories are fused together -- best friends*are*  
>  family."  
>     
>  "I guess I can do that."  
>     
>  "You already do, Jim."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:33:21 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Have you told your roomie yet?  (was Friendship vs.  
>  Love)  
>     
>  On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, tracy l wrote  
>     
>  : Hi there Panther and Wolf,  
>  :  
>  : Haven't heard from you two lately.  Is everything OK?  I think you  
>  : were both contemplating talking to your roommate about your feelings.  
>  : It seems to me that the holiday season of peace and goodwill is a  
>  : great time to open up to your roomies about your feelings.  
>  :  
>  : Have a wonderful holiday season.  
>     
>  Thank you for your good wishes, Tracy.  
>     
>  Well, everything is not OK, but I'm hanging in there.  
>     
>  Some complications seem to have arisen so that I don't feel comfortable  
>  taking that step at the moment.  
>     
>  But I would like to take this opportunity to thank my listsibs out there  
>  for being so supportive of me these last few weeks.  I have *so* needed  
>  it!  
>     
>  I plan to spend the season with my roomie.  He may not feel the same way  
>  that I do about this, but he's like family to me.  He'll always be  
>  family to me.  No matter what.  
>     
>  Here's hoping that all of you can feel this much belonging with your  
>  friends and families!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:07:23 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  I just want to say that this whole discussion about the flavors of  
>  ejaculate [I am so glad the door to my office is locked] is rather  
>  disconcerting.  
>     
>  I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, since I'm not sure how or whether  
>  I'm going to tell him how I feel about him.  
>     
>  But I thought that just in case things worked out, I should know what I  
>  was getting into, so to speak.  And I thought well, since I'm a guy, I  
>  could at least do a little research on myself to see what a guy tastes  
>  like. [Oh, god, this is *so* TMI!]  
>     
>  And now you're telling me that we don't all taste alike, so I can't even  
>  know that.  
>     
>  I hope someone can clear this up.  Is there *any* way to predict these  
>  things?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:30:55 -0500  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  If he's a beer drinker he'll be bitter, what ever he eats he will taste  
>  like. [30 years married and experienced lots of flavors same guy]  
>     
>  \--S'Belle  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:23:13 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, S'Belle wrote:  
>     
>  : If he's a beer drinker he'll be bitter, what ever he eats he will  
>  : taste like. [30 years married and experienced lots of flavors same  
>  : guy]  
>     
>  Are we talking hamburger-flavored?  
>     
>  How does lasagna translate?  
>     
>  Would beer overwhelm everything else?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:08:24 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>     [snip]  
>     
>  : I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, since I'm not sure how or  
>  : whether I'm going to tell  
>  : him how I feel about him.  
>  :  
>  : But I thought that just in case things worked out, I should know what  
>  : I was getting into, so to speak.  And I thought well, since I'm a guy,  
>  : I could at least do a little research on myself to see what a guy  
>  : tastes like. [Oh, god, this is *so* TMI!]  
>  :  
>  : And now you're telling me that we don't all taste alike, so I can't  
>  : even know that.  
>     
>  I have one question: what the hell difference does it make?  
>     
>  Several ladies on this list have described a variety of flavors and only  
>  one reported any revulsion [and that was related not to flavor].  
>     
>  A few have reported that they have repeated the experience.  So whatever  
>  the flavor, it can't be *that* bad.  
>     
>  It's not about flavor.  It's about love.  
>     
>  Frankly, I'm more worried about rejection than aesthetics.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>  PS. No offense intended to people who want to discuss this, especially  
>  in the interests of creating realistic fiction.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:36:34 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  : On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>  :  
>  :    [snip]  
>  :  
>  : I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, since I'm not sure how or  
>  : whether I'm going to tell him how I feel about him.  
>  :  
>  : But I thought that just in case things worked out, I should know what  
>  : I was getting into, so to speak.  And I thought well, since I'm a guy,  
>  : getting into, so to speak.  And I thought well, since I'm a guy,  
>  : I could at least do a little research on myself to see what a guy  
>  : tastes like. [Oh, god, this is *so* TMI!]  
>  :  
>  : And now you're telling me that we don't all taste alike, so I can't  
>  :  
>  : even know that.  
>     
>      On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I have one question: what the hell difference does it make?  
>  :  
>  : Several ladies on this list have described a variety of flavors and  
>  : only one reported any revulsion [and that was related not to flavor].  
>  :  
>  : A few have reported that they have repeated the experience.  So  
>  : whatever the flavor, it can't be *that* bad.  
>  :  
>  : It's not about flavor.  It's about love.  
>  :  
>  : Frankly, I'm more worried about rejection than aesthetics.  
>     
>  Hey, man, who pissed in *your* beer?!  
>     
>  No need to go off on me on the list.  I told you I'm nervous.  
>     
>  Maybe I think and talk about the concrete, physical stuff because I feel  
>  helpless about the emotional stuff.  Did that ever occur to you?!  
>     
>  I can't help it if you're feeling rejected.  Don't take it out on me.  
>     
>  I have enough to deal with.  We were snowed in over Christmas here.  We  
>  both were morose assholes because we were pretty much trapped in the  
>  apartment.  And I couldn't keep my mind off the fact that he's in a  
>  crappy mood because he's pining over somebody *else* -- someone who  
>  can't see how great he can be.  
>     
>  And it's frankly getting harder to be sympathetic or encouraging.  
>     
>  I mean, exactly how sincere can I be when I tell him that someday I hope  
>  they'll come around or whatever?  
>     
>  I want him to be happy and all, but I could use a little happiness  
>  myself.  
>     
>  I could use a little sympathy here.  I don't need to hear it from  
>  another cranky guy.  Especially when I put myself sort of out there on  
>  the list.  
>     
>  I thought we were forming sort of a friendship here. You have been  
>  really decent to me until now.  What happened?!  We need each other's  
>  support in this -- don't you think so?  
>     
>  Did something happen to you over Christmas to make you so cranky?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:06:19 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Apology  
>     
>  :    On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : I have one question: what the hell difference does it make?  
>     
>  [snip]  
>  :  
>  : It's not about flavor.  It's about love.  
>  :  
>  : Frankly, I'm more worried about rejection than aesthetics.  
>     
>  On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Hey, man, who pissed in *your* beer?!  
>  :  
>  : No need to go off on me on the list.  I told you I'm nervous.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : I have enough to deal with.  We were snowed in over Christmas here.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : I mean, exactly how sincere can I be when I tell him that someday I  
>  : hope they'll come  around or whatever?  
>  :  
>  : I want him to be happy and all, but I could use a little happiness  
>  : myself.  
>     
>    [snip]  
>     
>  : You have been really decent to me until now.  We need each other's  
>  : support in this -- don't you think so?  
>  :  
>  : Did something happen to you over Christmas to make you so cranky?  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I apologize.  
>     
>  You're right.  I should have been gentler in my comments, especially on  
>  list.  
>     
>  And you're right that the events of this past week have made it a lot  
>  harder for me to be gentle. Something I'm not exactly good at in the  
>  first place.  
>     
>  As you know, most of the Pacific Northwest was under snow for several  
>  days.  We didn't get out much, either.  
>     
>  Turns out he's 'pining' [as you put it] over somebody that does not even  
>  know he's interested.  How can I fight *that*?!  
>     
>  Does a best friend say "Forget about her -- the unattainable woman of  
>  your dreams.  Take me -- the aging, balding *guy* you've seen over the  
>  breakfast table sporting 'bedhead'"?  Frankly, I don't think this is  
>  likely to fly, do you?  
>     
>  You're right that we need to support each other.  I just don't know how  
>  to advise you.  
>     
>  Frankly, I wouldn't care what he tasted like; I'd just like him to want  
>  me to.  
>     
>  And just telling you that is pushing the envelope of what is too private  
>  for me to discuss about myself.  
>     
>  I hope this clears things up between us.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:17:41 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Apology  
>     
>   On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>    [snip]  
>     
>  : Frankly, I wouldn't care what he tasted like; I'd just like him to  
>  : want me to.  
>  :  
>  : And just telling you that is pushing the envelope of what is too  
>  : private for me to discuss about myself.  
>  :  
>  : I hope this clears things up between us.  
>     
>  Thanks, man.  This clears up a lot.  I should have known there was  
>  something like this behind so much sarcasm.  
>     
>  I appreciate your revealing this to me. I know how private you prefer to  
>  be, so this means a lot.  
>     
>  I think I'll take your advice and stop focusing on details that I'll  
>  probably never be in the position to face, anyway.  
>     
>  Are you still going to do your 'confession' or are you just going to  
>  give up on it?  
>     
>  I'm trying to decide on this for myself.  
>     
>  On the one hand, he is really obviously 'pining' [I love that word] over  
>  some mystery person.  He mopes around and is getting impossible to talk  
>  to.  
>     
>  But he says they're not really interested.  So really there's no  
>  relationship to break up, so if I say something, I'm not, like, doing  
>  anything *wrong.*  
>     
>  But the likelihood of rejection is greater.  
>     
>  What's your thinking on this?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 29 Dec 1998 13:27:47 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: What's a Best Friend to do?  
>     
>     On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Are you still going to do your 'confession' or are you just going to  
>  : give up on it?  
>  :  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : But he says they're not really interested.  So really there's no  
>  : relationship to break up, so if I say something, I'm not, like, doing  
>  : anything *wrong.*  
>  :  
>  : But the likelihood of rejection is greater.  
>  :  
>  : What's your thinking on this?  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  Here's my thinking:  
>     
>  Let's imagine that you were my roommate.  Let's say you told me that  
>  there was someone else, someone that might very well be the 'love of  
>  your life.' Someone so important that you won't even consider dating  
>  anyone else.  
>     
>  And then I'm supposed to just push through all that, ask you to forget  
>  about it and go for me?  
>     
>  I can't do it.  
>     
>  As his best friend, I could not ask him to turn away from something so  
>  important to him.  As a true friend, I would have to support him in what  
>  is best for *him.*  
>     
>  Would *you* want a friend of yours to try to turn you from the person  
>  you say you want?  Would that even be a possibility?  
>     
>  And if you were, hypothetically, my roommate and I were able to dissuade  
>  you -- how could I trust you?  If you could give up on the 'love of your  
>  life'?  How could I trust someone so fickle?  How could I then be so  
>  sure that you wouldn't later be turned from me?  
>     
>  So I guess what I'm saying here is that really there is no hope.  I will  
>  just have to carry on as I always have.  I've practiced being stoic for  
>  nearly 40 years.  It's almost easy.  
>     
>  So that's my take on it.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998, 2:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim, do you have any plans for Thursday night?"  
>     
>  "Thursday night?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, New Year's Eve, Jim.  You have any plans?"  
>     
>  "Not really, Chief.  You?"  
>     
>  "There's going to be a small party given by the Department.  I was  
>  thinking of going.  We can bring someone and so I thought ..."  
>     
>  "You're asking me to go to a party where there's likely to be a bunch of  
>  drunk academics? Look, Sandburg, I already don't understand what they're  
>  talking about half the time -- and that's without the slurred speech."  
>     
>  "You know, sometimes you are *such* a dick!  I went to Megan's Christmas  
>  party, where there were a bunch of *cops.* Some of them were drinking.  
>  What *is* your problem?!"  
>     
>  "Sorry, Chief. You're right.  Are you sure you don't want to ask  
>  somebody out, maybe some girl to help you get over your mystery crush?  
>     
>  "No, Jim.  That's just not going to happen."  
>     
>  "So it's just us, again.  This is getting to be a habit."  
>     
>  "Do you mind?"  
>     
>  "No.  Not at all."  
>     
>  "Because if you don't want to hang out with me on New Year's ... I mean,  
>  I'd understand."  
>     
>  "Nobody else I'd rather hang out with, Chief."  
>     
>  "But I thought.."  
>     
>  "What, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Nothing."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:37:23 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  Wolf wondered:  
>     
>  > And now you're telling me that we don't all taste alike, so I can't  
>  > even know that.  
>  >  
>  > I hope someone can clear this up.  Is there *any* way to predict these  
>  > things?  
>     
>  Well, Wolf, my experience is rather limited to one "flavor" but I must  
>  have lucked out in the draw because I've been sampling it for 19 years  
>  now and have liked it from the beginning.  
>     
>  My instinct says if the natural scent of your partner is pleasing to  
>  you, then the rest of it will be also. But, as I said, I'm limited to a  
>  sampling of one so I could be way off.  
>     
>  Deb  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:43:51 -0800 (PST)  
>  16:46:51 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison french <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  To Panther:  
>     
>  Here, here!  
>     
>  And for Wolf: In moments of passionate "love" the taste and  
>  flavor*become* the person you love....and I have been lucky enough to  
>  experience such overwhelming "passionate love" for an individual that  
>  there was no part of their body or "bodily fluid" that I didn't love or  
>  want to taste.... That *need* to be as close as possible, to be inside  
>  or have that individual inside you...to taste as much as you  
>  can....touch all that you can....meld yourself to them, becomes the all  
>  consuming passion!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998, 3:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Sandy, you doing anything for New Year's?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, I'm thinking of going to something at the University.  Why?"  
>     
>  "I just thought if you weren't doing anything ... but you are.  ...  So  
>  ... um, do you mind if I ask a personal question?"  
>     
>  "Depends.  What do you want to know, Megan?"  
>     
>  "Are you and Jim ... well ... dating?"  
>     
>  "No, Megan, I told you before.  I'm not dating these days.  And Jim says  
>  he isn't either."  
>     
>  "No I meant.."  
>     
>  "What?"  
>     
>  "Well, it's almost like you and Jim are dating ... each other..."  
>     
>  "You mean because we go to parties together?  No. ... No.  We are, as  
>  they say, 'just good friends.' Best friends.  Why?  You hear rumors  
>  about us?"  
>     
>  "No.  No rumors.  It just crossed my mind, that's all.  You two are very  
>  close and ... well ... not every pair of 'best friends' go to every  
>  party together in lieu of a date or an S O ... so ... as I said, it  
>  crossed my mind."  
>     
>  "Well, just don't mention this to Jim -- I don't think he'd appreciate  
>  people meddling into his private life.  OK?"  
>     
>  "Promise."  
>     
>  "Thanks, Megan."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:45:50 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: This Weird Thing Just Happened  
>     
>  I just had to write, man, because this weird thing just happened earlier  
>  today.  
>     
>  A mutual friend of ours actually asked me whether my roommate and I are  
>  'dating.'  
>     
>  She said it had to do with the fact that we are so close and do so much  
>  stuff together.  And it's true that neither of us is seeing anyone else.  
>     
>  I'm wondering whether my emotional state is sort of showing up on her  
>  intuitive radar or something.  I mean, she's very perceptive about some  
>  things.  She definitely asks questions about us that no one else asks.  
>     
>  And if *she* is getting vibes from me, maybe *he* is and he's just not  
>  talking about it.  
>     
>  This whole thing is really just wearing me out.  
>     
>  I got your other e-mail about the reasons for NOT trying to turn your  
>  guy from the 'love of his life' to you.  
>     
>  But maybe we should just make a pact to just announce how WE feel  
>  without trying to convince our friends to feel the same way for us.  
>     
>  That way, it would be out there.  And we wouldn't have compromised  
>  anybody's integrity.  
>     
>  Things couldn't get any worse than they already are, right?  
>     
>  Or could they?  What if he feels too awkward living with me after that?  
>  I don't want to be tiptoe-ing around making sure that nothing I say or  
>  do could make him self-conscious or anything.  I mean the guy usually  
>  has no problem going around in just a towel or just his boxers.  I  
>  wouldn't want him to feel like he couldn't do that.  A guy should be  
>  able to just be himself in his own apartment, right?  
>     
>  Gotta go.  
>     
>  There's a paper bag with my name on it.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:16:53 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: This Weird Thing Just Happened  
>     
>    On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : This whole thing is really just wearing me out.  
>  :  
>  : I got your other e-mail about the reasons for NOT trying to turn your  
>  : guy from the 'love of his life' to you.  
>  :  
>  : But maybe we should just make a pact to just announce how WE feel  
>  : without trying to convince our friends to feel the same way for us.  
>  :  
>  : That way, it would be out there.  And we wouldn't have compromised  
>  : anybody's integrity.  
>  :  
>  : Things couldn't get any worse than they already are, right?  
>     
>     [snip]  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  You want us to face guys who have basically announced that there is  
>  someone else.  An unattainable someone else.  But someone else,  
>  nevertheless.  
>     
>  And you want us to just quit dancing around and come out with it.  
>     
>  Not try to ask for anything -- just make a statement.  Put the ball in  
>  their court.  
>     
>  Then, what?  We sit back and wait for the rejection.  Get it over with.  
>  And go on.  
>     
>  I'll say this: you've got guts.  
>     
>  When you're done breathing into that paper bag, you want to go first?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 29 Dec 1998 17:06:59 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Do I want to go first?  
>     
>  On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : And you want us to just quit dancing around and come out with    it.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : I'll say this: you've got guts.  
>  :  
>  : When you're done breathing into that paper bag, you want to go first?  
>     
>  Who says we have to take turns?  
>     
>  We can both go simultaneously.  
>     
>  I'll give us both a deadline:  We tell them by noon January 9.  Sooner  
>  if possible.  Or we shut up forever.  
>     
>  Deal?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998, about 7:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "Jim, have you been reading the Watchman fanfic, lately?"  
>     
>  "A bit.  Why?"  
>     
>  "Have you noticed the way Joe and Jake *talk* to each other in some of  
>  those stories?"  
>     
>  "What do you mean, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Kinda mushy for guys, don't you think?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, sometimes. Why?"  
>     
>  "Well, when you were in a relationship, did you use to talk like that?  
>  Mushy talk?  Cutesy nicknames?"  
>     
>  "And this is your business, because...?"  
>     
>  "I bet you did.  I bet you're really a big mush!"  
>     
>  "Look, Sandburg, what makes you think I'd get into cute nicknames and  
>  stuff?"  
>     
>  "I don't know \-- what made you call me your 'little guppy'?"  
>     
>  "I never."  
>     
>  "You did.  When we went fishing with Simon that time when we ran into  
>  the poachers.  You said something like, 'Ready to learn how to fly-fish,  
>  my little guppy?'"  
>     
>  "OK, so I did.  That doesn't mean I'm a mush."  
>     
>  "Well, if you say something that cute to your roommate, I can just  
>  imagine ..."  
>     
>  "And you want to imagine because ... why?  Is this for one of your  
>  chapters, Sandburg -- 'Mating Habits of the Urban Sentinel'?"  
>     
>  "I'll ignore that. "  
>     
>  "Well, how about you, Sandburg?  You do the mushy stuff?"  
>     
>  "Maybe.  ... OK, well, yeah."  
>     
>  "So what makes you think Joe and Jake are any different from us, Chief?"  
>     
>  "I guess you're right.  I guess we have more in common than I realized."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:02:18 -0500  
>  From: Karen <Caorann@worldnet.att.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Flavors  
>     
>  Wolf said:  
>     
>  > I just want to say that this whole discussion about the flavors of  
>  > ejaculate [I am so glad the door to my office is locked] is rather  
>  > disconcerting.  
>  >  
>  > I realize I'm getting ahead of myself, since I'm not sure how or  
>  > whether I'm going to tell him how I feel about him.  
>  >  
>  > But I thought that just in case things worked out, I should know what  
>  > I was getting into, so to speak.  And I thought well, since I'm a guy,  
>  > I could at least do a little research on myself to see what a guy  
>  > tastes like. [Oh, god, this is *so* TMI!]  
>  >  
>  > And now you're telling me that we don't all taste alike, so I can't  
>  > even know that.  
>  >  
>  > I hope someone can clear this up.  Is there *any* way to predict these  
>  > things?  
>  >  
>  > \--Wolf  
>     
>  Nope! I've heard that it depends on what you eat, and that vegetarians  
>  taste better, but that wasn't my experience. I had a boyfriend who  
>  became a vegetarian during our relationship, and it really didn't change  
>  the taste at all, except a little more bitter. I will say this, that  
>  I've never tasted any that I thought was so revolting I just couldn't  
>  swallow. But it does take a little getting used to, especially the  
>  texture, which is kind of strange. But if I can learn to not only  
>  tolerate it, but enjoy it, so can you, I'm sure!  
>     
>  Good luck, Karen  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 29 Dec 1998, about 8:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yeah?"  
>     
>  "Are you ever going to tell me about your 'mystery crush'?  
>     
>  "Eventually, Jim.  And 'crush' is *so* not the right word.  It's a lot  
>  more than a crush."  
>     
>  "Is it somebody I know, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yep."  
>     
>  "But you're not going to tell me who she is?"  
>     
>  "Well, it's not exactly a 'she,' Jim."  
>     
>  "Hence, the secrecy?"  
>     
>  "Yeah.  Well, that's part of it."  
>     
>  "What?  You thought I'd get uptight about that, Sandburg?  I told you  
>  that stuff doesn't bother me."  
>     
>  "You wouldn't feel, you know, uncomfortable knowing that I could feel  
>  that way about a guy?  You know, with me living here? "  
>     
>  "You already said you had considered that kind of relationship with a  
>  guy.  Have you seen me looking any more uncomfortable with you than  
>  usual?"  
>     
>  "Well, no ..."  
>     
>  "So there's your answer."  
>     
>  "You really are great, Jim.  Love ya, man."  
>     
>  "Love you, too, Chief."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:17:18 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Cynara <cynarapherson@yahoo.com>  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Are you going to talk to him?  
>     
>   Wolf, is there any possibility that your roommate is pining for _you_?  
>  Before you say 'No way!', think about it.  Wouldn't it be terrible for  
>  you not to say anything, and him not to say anything, and have the two  
>  of you not saying anything blow up in your faces?  
>     
>  I'm not saying you need to make a big confession, or spring for roses  
>  and candlelight, but you've got to break out of this stalemate.  'Cause  
>  you really never know until you do, and you'll only _know_ if you try.  
>     
>  Hopefully, even if he is pining for someone else, it will be cleaner in  
>  the long run.  Trust me, from experience the second-guessing just smears  
>  it all over the place.  
>     
>   Good luck!  
>     
>  Cynara  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 23:59:57 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: cynarapherson@yahoo.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Are you going to talk to him?  
>     
>    On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Cynara wrote:  
>  :  
>  : Wolf, is there any possibility that your roommate is pining for _you_?  
>  : Before you say 'No way!', think about it.  Wouldn't it be terrible for  
>  : you not to say anything, and him not to say anything, and have the two  
>  : of you not saying anything blow up in your faces?  
>     
>     [snip]  
>     
>  : Hopefully, even if he is pining for someone else, it will be cleaner  
>  : in the long run.  Trust me, from experience the second-guessing just  
>  : smears it all over the place.  
>     
>  Hi,  
>     
>  I really appreciate your writing me like this.  I do need all the  
>  support I can get.  
>     
>  But I was wondering just how staying quiet could blow up in our faces?  
>     
>  I know that eventually he'll figure out that something is up with me.  
>  In fact, he *knows* that I'm suffering from unrequited love.  But if I  
>  tell him and it can't be mutual, then how can we be comfortable as  
>  roommates?  
>     
>  Both of these situations seem really awkward and I'm not sure which one  
>  is worse.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:23:31 -0800 (PST)  
>  23:56:31 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Cynara <cynarapherson@yahoo.com>  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Subject: Flooey  
>     
>     On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  >>  Hopefully, even if he is pining for someone else, it will be cleaner  
>  >> in the long run.  Trust me, from experience the second-guessing just  
>  >> smears it all over the place.  
>  >  
>  > Hi,  
>  >  
>  > I really appreciate your writing me like this.  I do need all the  
>  > support I can get.  
>  >  
>  > But I was wondering just how staying quiet could blow up in our faces?  
>  >  
>  > I know that eventually he'll figure out that something is up with me.  
>  > In fact, he *knows* that I'm suffering from unrequited love.  But if I  
>  > tell him and it can't be  
>  > mutual, then how can we be comfortable as roommates?  
>  >  
>  > Both of these situations seem really awkward and I'm not sure which  
>  > one is worse.  
>  >  
>  > \--Wolf >  
>     
>  See, I have the theory that people don't react well to holding patterns.  
>  What if's force one into a holding pattern.  Ergo, something gives  
>  eventually, and by that point it all has snowballed and like a snowball,  
>  has accumulated junk in with the water.  You ever melt snowballs?  
>  Anyway, it sounds like right now is pretty awkward, and while it's true  
>  it could be worse, it could also get a _whole_ lot better.  
>     
>  You know better than me, your friend that is, but don't you think it's  
>  just possible that he could live up to all the things that make you love  
>  him, and at least be able to accept that, even if he doesn't exactly  
>  return them?  And there's that possibility...  
>     
>  Hey, did panther ever get around to telling his?  I delete my mail so  
>  fast it isn't even funny.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998, about noon  
>     
>   "Hey, Catharine, what's up?"  
>     
>  "Just finishing up ... then I'm outta here!"  
>     
>  "I hear that."  
>     
>  "So, Blair, you got plans for tomorrow night?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, Jim and I'll probably go to the Department party."  
>     
>  "You're taking your *roommate* to the New Year's Eve party?!"  
>     
>  "Well, not exactly 'taking,' more like we're going there together ..."  
>     
>  "Well, midnight should prove interesting."  
>     
>  "Midnight?"  
>     
>  "Hello! New Year's Eve?  Midnight?  Everybody yells 'Happy New Year!'  
>  Guys grab nearby women for the ritual osculation? You know, midnight."  
>     
>  "Oh, ma-an ... *midnight*"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998, 3:45 p.m.  
>     
>  "Sandy.  When are you going to tell him?"  
>     
>  "Tell who what, Megan?"  
>     
>  "Tell Jim and you *know* what."  
>     
>  "How did you guess?"  
>     
>  "It is so *obvious* to anybody looking at you.  The way you look at him?  
>  Get serious."  
>     
>  "If it's so obvious, then why hasn't he figured it out?"  
>     
>  "Maybe he has.  Maybe he's just waiting for you."  
>     
>  "You know, somebody else said that."  
>     
>  "So when are you going to tell him?"  
>     
>  "Soon."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998, about 3:55 p.m.  
>     
>   "When is he going to tell him what, Connor?"  
>     
>  "You heard us, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Just a couple of things.  When is he going to tell him what?"  
>     
>  "I can't really discuss that with you.  You're going to have to talk to  
>  your partner about that."  
>     
>  "He can discuss it with *you,* but not me?"  
>     
>  "He wasn't really discussing it with me; I just confronted him with it."  
>     
>  "But how did *you* know to confront him?"  
>     
>  "Because, Jim, it was obvious.  And if you'd been paying attention,  
>  you'd see it yourself.  But that's all I'm going to say on the subject.  
>  The rest you will have to get from Sandy."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:17:47 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Just Checking In  
>     
>  How're you doing, Wolf?  Just thought I'd check in and see if the paper  
>  bags are safe at the moment. :)  
>     
>  I overheard the end of a conversation between him and a mutual friend  
>  and got the impression that he's about to approach his ... whatever they  
>  are.  
>     
>  She practically called me an idiot for not catching on sooner -- that he  
>  has this secret.  
>     
>  I do feel like an idiot.  How could I have *missed* it?  
>     
>  Enough.  
>     
>  Do you have any plans for New Year's?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:04:04 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com   59%To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Just Checking In  
>     
>   On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : How're you doing, Wolf?  Just thought I'd check in and see if the  
>  : paper bags are safe at the moment. :)  
>     
>  No paper bags were harmed in the creation of this e-mail.  
>     
>  ;)  
>     
>  : She practically called me an idiot for not catching on sooner -- that  
>  : he has this secret.  
>  :  
>  : I do feel like an idiot.  How could I have *missed* it?  
>     
>  There are perfectly reasonable explanations for this.  
>     
>  This secret love [God! First I sound like Scully, now Doris Day] could  
>  have been going on for *years*.  
>     
>  If that's true, then there wouldn't have been any abrupt change in  
>  behavior to clue you -- right?  It would all look just ... normal.  
>     
>  But now that you know, you can start looking.  Is there anyone around  
>  that he looks at like they're *God,* or something?  
>     
>  : Do you have any plans for New Year's?  
>     
>  We're just going to a thing at work.  Should be fun.  Just don't know  
>  what I'm going to do about this one co-worker.  She *so* has a crush on  
>  me and I just don't want to deal with that.  
>     
>  How about you?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:35:50 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: They way he looks?  
>     
>  : On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : She practically called me an idiot for not catching on sooner -- that  
>  : he has this secret.  
>  :  
>  : I do feel like an idiot.  How could I have *missed* it?  
>     
>  On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : There are perfectly reasonable explanations for this.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : But now that you know, you can start looking.  Is there anyone around  
>  : that he looks at  
>  : like they're *God,* or something?  
>     
>  I've been looking around but I just don't see this.  
>     
>  He's so friendly to *everybody,* has an incredibly open smile for most  
>  people.  His eyes have this sort of warm glow when he smiles ...  
>     
>  But I haven't seen him look gaga over anyone in about 3 years and I know  
>  for a fact it isn't her.  
>     
>  No... There isn't anyone around that he looks at like that.  He looks at  
>  others no more intensely than he looks at me, his roommate.  
>     
>  So no.  No deity-worship that *I* can see.  
>     
>  But I'll keep looking.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:06:45 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A little logic?! [was They way he looks?]  
>     
>  : On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : But now that you know, you can start looking.  Is there anyone around  
>  : that he looks at like they're *God,* or something?  
>     
>  On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I've been looking around but I just don't see this.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : No... There isn't anyone around that he looks at like that.  
>     
>  : He looks at others no more intensely than he looks at me, his  
>  : roommate.  
>     
>  I don't *believe* this, man!  
>     
>  Do you even *listen* to yourself?  
>     
>  He looks at others NO MORE INTENSELY than he looks at you?  
>     
>  Does he ... possibly look at others LESS INTENSELY than he looks at you?  
>     
>  God! men are just SO clueless!  
>     
>  </rant>  
>     
>  Other than that, how are things going?  I assume you haven't told him  
>  yet.  
>     
>  I'm thinking of dropping a bunch of hints.  Maybe say it New Year's.  
>  Maybe not.  Depends on how receptive he seems.  
>     
>  Wolf, who is probably JUST as clueless; must be the Y chromosome...  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:24:33 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: New Year's Plans?  
>     
>  : On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>      [snip]  
>     
>  : Do you have any plans for New Year's?  
>     
>    On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : We're just going to a thing at work.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : How about you?  
>     
>  Pretty much the same here.  I guess some students are having a thing and  
>  we're going to hang out there.  
>     
>  How do you plan to avoid the girl with the crush? ;)  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:54:01 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Intense Looks  
>     
>   On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I don't *believe* this, man!  
>  :  
>  : Do you even *listen* to yourself?  
>  :  
>  : He looks at others NO MORE INTENSELY than he looks at you?  
>  :  
>  : Does he ... possibly look at others LESS INTENSELY than he looks at  
>  : you?  
>  :  
>  : God! men are just SO clueless!  
>  :  
>  : </rant>  
>     
>  Must be why we joined a predominantly female list \-- eh, Wolfie?  
>     
>  Somebody pee in *your* beer this time?  
>     
>  OK ... YES.  You're right.  He does, in fact, look at most people less  
>  intensely than he looks at me.  We've been best friends for over 3  
>  years; he's *glad to see me*.  
>     
>  I think you've been reading way too much slashfic; it's clouding your  
>  objectivity.  
>     
>  </counter-rant>  
>     
>  So ... drop any hints, yet?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:14:42 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Trying to be Good  
>     
>  On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : How do you plan to avoid the girl with the crush? ;)  
>     
>  Oh, man, I do not know!  
>     
>  It is just SO embarrassing.  
>     
>  And she hinted that she'd hunt me down at midnight.  
>     
>  I mean, it's not that she isn't nice, friendly, smart and attractive.  
>  She's all of those things.  
>     
>  It's just that I'm trying SO hard to be good, you know?  
>     
>  I'm guessing you think this is really funny, but it isn't.  
>     
>  What do you suggest I do?  
>     
>  \--Wolf, who really *isn't*  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:34:36 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Trying to be Good  
>     
>  : On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Panther wrote:  
>  :  
>  : : How do you plan to avoid the girl with the crush? ;)  
>     
>     On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : Oh, man, I do not know!  
>     
>  : It is just SO embarrassing.  
>     
>     [snip]  
>     
>  : I'm guessing you think this is really funny, but it isn't.  
>  :  
>  : What do you suggest I do?  
>     
>  Kill 2 birds with one stone:  tell her you're already taken -- by him.  
>     
>  I'm only half joking.  
>     
>  I think it *is* funny -- my roommate, at one time, would not have run  
>  from this at all. A lot of guys wouldn't have, probably.  
>     
>  But I guess it's only funny because it's not me.  
>     
>  Maybe you could pretend you have a date showing up any minute.  
>     
>  Maybe you could hide in a closet.  I guess not; too much irony in that.  
>     
>  I guess I really don't know.  This sort of problem has never come up for  
>  me.  
>     
>  Let me know how you pull this off.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998, about 9:30 p.m.  
>     
>   "Hey, Jim.  What about your ... situation?"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, can you *be* any more vague?!"  
>     
>  "I mean, you've been nudging me about my 'mystery person' but you  
>  haven't said much about yours.  You going to?"  
>     
>  "Eventually."  
>     
>  "When?  Is there any reason to wait?"  
>     
>  "I guess I want to wait until I'm sure how it's going to go."  
>     
>  "So you haven't really given up; it's not a total lost cause, then."  
>     
>  "I guess you're right.  I guess I'm still hopeful."  
>     
>  "I'm glad for you, then."  
>     
>  "Thanks, Chief."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thurs, 31 Dec 1998 08:32:37 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Do I want to go first?  
>     
>   On Tues, 29 Dec 1998, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I'll give us both a deadline:  We tell them by noon January 9.  Sooner  
>  : if possible.  Or we shut up forever.  
>  :  
>  : Deal?  
>     
>  Deal.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998, about 7:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim, yesterday you said that you were waiting to tell me about  
>  your ... um ... mystery person ..  when you figured out how things were  
>  going to go."  
>     
>  "Yes. I said that.  Your point?"  
>     
>  "Well, how will you know?  How are you going to find out?  Are you going  
>  to ask them straight out or what?"  
>     
>  "Well, Chief, I thought I'd try observing for a while.  Get a sense of  
>  whether they can stand me.  Figure out if there really is someone else.  
>  Drop a few hints.  Listen to what they say.  Nothing you haven't done  
>  yourself, who knows how many times -- and just *why* are you asking me  
>  this?"  
>     
>  "I just ... I wanted ... I need ... Just let me know when you figure it  
>  out, OK?  Because if you hook up with somebody ... somebody important  
>  ... if you ... then it may change the way we work together, how we are  
>  as friends ... and I just want to ... need to ... figure out how to  
>  adjust .. I'll need to process it.  ... That's all.  Because it'll  
>  change things, Jim.  That's why.  
>     
>  "And I don't think I can face....  I mean first there's the torture of  
>  the unrequited love thing .. and then .. and then you'll be off with  
>  someone ... and I'll be happy for you really I will because ... but if  
>  ... you know .. it's an old thing .. a commonplace ... I mean they even  
>  have it in The Lion King ... Timon and Pumba ..  [Timon was gay, you  
>  know, and so was Scar, probably, although he was probably omnisexual,  
>  but I digress]   Timon and Pumba even sing about it when Nala shows up  
>  ... So if it shows up there, you just *know* it's commonly known ...  
>  that it *changes* things, Jim!"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, you're really not making much sense; I think you need to  
>  breathe. I'm not going anywhere, Chief.  I really don't think we should  
>  be taking our cues from an animated meercat and warthog.  
>     
>  "And besides, since when do *you* put that much stock in 'commonplaces'?  
>  The very realities of our partnership belie several commonplaces."  
>     
>  "'Belie,' Jim?"  
>     
>  "It's a perfectly good word, Sandburg.  Shows up in my favorite  
>  Shakespearean sonnet.  I'll let you guess which one."  
>     
>  "Shakespeare, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Disney, Sandburg?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998, about 9:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "Catharine!  You've met Jim, right?"  
>     
>  "Briefly, once.  Glad to meet you again, Jim.  Hey, you guys look great  
>  tonight!  Blair sure cleans up nicely, doesn't he, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Catharine!"  
>     
>  "Well, you *do,* Blair.  I think this is one of the few times I've seen  
>  you wearing fewer than 6 shirts and 3 sweaters.  And look no holes in  
>  the knees!"  
>     
>  "Catharine's got you pegged.  And she's right, Chief -- you do clean up  
>  nicely."  
>     
>  "You're lookin' OK yourself, Jim.  I notice you're not wearing your  
>  white socks -- must be an occasion."  
>     
>  "Boys, now behave."  
>     
>  "You started it!"  
>     
>  "Ah, Blair, you're *so* easy.  Well, I'll be along later. ... say,  
>  11:59?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998, 11:40 p.m.  
>     
>  "Twenty more minutes, guys!  Back in a few!"  
>  **  
>     
>  "Jim, man, we gotta hide somewhere."  
>     
>  "Hide?  You being pursued by ghosts of girlfriends past, or something,  
>  Chief?"  
>     
>  "That's a Christmas story, Jim.  We are now faced with the specter of  
>  New Year's Eve. ... In here, Jim."  
>     
>  "What is this place and why are we here?"  
>     
>  "This is the phonetics lab; no one will think to look for us here."  
>     
>  "Just who are we hiding from, Sandburg, and why?"  
>     
>  "You heard Catharine -- it's almost a quarter to midnight.  And if I  
>  know her, she'll be coming after us, probably with a girlfriend, to  
>  indulge in the midnight ritual."  
>     
>  "Anthropologists have midnight rituals, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Get a clue, man, it's New Year's Eve! ...  
>     
>  "Aw, man! How do you *do* that?!"  
>     
>  "Do what, Chief?"  
>     
>  "That deadpan thing."  
>     
>  "But you're so easy, it's no effort at all.  
>     
>  "Look, Sandburg, all you had to say was that you didn't want Catharine  
>  to find you so you didn't have to kiss her at midnight.  You didn't have  
>  to go into all that academese about midnight rituals."  
>     
>  "Actually, Jim, kissing at midnight combines two sets of very important  
>  symbols. No, really, Jim, it's very interesting!  
>     
>  "First, several cultures have things to say about the importance of both  
>  midday and midnight.  In parts of China, midnight at the winter solstice  
>  is considered favorable for conception. And according to some texts,  
>  midnight of the winter solstice sets the 'yang' in motion and 'yin' at  
>  rest.  
>     
>  "Others have taught that the midnight sun is the spiritual sun at its  
>  zenith.  
>     
>  And my favorite one: midnight is sometimes considered a time of  
>  befuddlement but also the point at which revelation begins.  
>     
>  "And then there is the kissing, of course."  
>     
>  "Of course."  
>     
>  "Jim..."  
>     
>  "Go ahead, Sandburg. I figure we've got about 10 more minutes of hiding  
>  to do. I've never heard a treatise on kissing before. So go ahead, lay  
>  one on me."  
>     
>  "Um .. Well .. OK.. there are two kinds of kissing.  And the two kinds  
>  often overlap ambiguously.  
>     
>  "There's the sensual kissing where the mouth is used as a sensory organ.  
>  Like when a baby uses it sort of like a third hand.  You know, how  
>  babies are always putting things in their mouths?  They aren't always  
>  trying to eat everything.  Sometimes they're just getting information  
>  about whatever it is -- it's like their tongues are fingers.  
>     
>  "And sort of evolving out of that comes the erotic use of the mouth ...  
>  but I don't have to tell you about that, do I?"  
>     
>  "No.  I would say that I get that one, Chief."  
>     
>  "Um ... yeah ... but then there is the symbolic kissing. It's a symbol  
>  of 'a joining together and mutual adherence.' It was believed that when  
>  one person kissed another, they were joined, spirit to spirit.  
>     
>  "Many cultures associate the breath with the spirit or soul.  So when  
>  one's mouth touches another's mouth, the souls are released, one into  
>  the other, the two spirits forever joined.  
>     
>  "Hence, many have written about holy kisses between mankind and God, as  
>  well as between members of spiritual communities as a form of communion  
>  \-- the holy kiss being a sign of 'concord, submission, reverence, and  
>  love.'  
>     
>  "So in the 'Song of Solomon,' when he writes, 'Let him kiss me with the  
>  kisses of his mouth,' he means-- mmmmmmmph!  ... mmmmmph?  ...mmmmm..."  
>     
>  "Happy New Year, Blair."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999, 12:03 a.m.  
>     
>  "Jim?!"  
>     
>  "That's me, Chief."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Blair?"  
>     
>  "Jim?  Me?"  
>     
>  "No, *I'm* Jim; you're Blair."  
>     
>  "It was me?  You were waiting to tell me about *me*?  
>     
>  "Aw, ma-an!  How could I not *see* this?!  
>     
>  "But couldn't *you* tell?  It was *always* you.  You couldn't *tell*?  
>     
>  "What can I say, Blair, fear and denial make clueless morons of us all.  
>  I think Shakespeare said that, but not in those words."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, about 12:15  
>     
>  "Shhhh"  
>     
>  "What? Jim?"  
>     
>  <knock-knock>  
>     
>    ...  
>     
>  <knock-knock>  
>     
>  "Time to come out now, boys."  
>     
>  <Cree-eak>  
>     
>  "How did you--?"  
>     
>  "The phonetics lab? You thought you could hide from an anthro TA in  
>  the*phonetics* lab?  Whole *babies* have been conceived in here.  
>     
>  "Really, Blair, you are *such* a clueless nerd.  I bet you spent the  
>  whole time discoursing on articulation and missed midnight."  
>     
>  "No, Catharine, for your information, I did NOT discourse on  
>  articulation and I'm quite aware that it's the new year, thank you very  
>  much."  
>     
>  "Articulation, Chief?"  
>     
>  "The way the lips and tongue are used ... to make speech sounds."  
>     
>  "Then, no, Catharine.  Nothing that dull."  
>     
>  " I stand corrected. ...  Anyway, they're thinking of moving the party -  
>  \- what's left of it -- to Dr. Berlin's place.  And we have to lock up.  
>  So ...  as I said, Blair ..."  
>     
>  "OK-ok! We're coming out.  
>     
>  "What?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooýÿÿÿ  
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 12:30 a.m.  
>     
>  "Jim, man, I've read a LOT of Shakespeare and I don't remember*anything*  
>  that sounded like 'fear and denial make clueless morons of us  
>  all.'"  
>     
>  "Chief? We've just been caught in the phonetics lab and you want to  
>  talk*Shakespeare*?  OK, let's try this:  
>     
>  ...Who would fardels bear,  
>  To Grunt and sweat under a weary life,  
>  But that the dread of something after death,  
>  The undiscovered country, from whose bourn  
>  No traveller returns, puzzles the will,  
>  And makes us rather bear those ills we have  
>  Than fly to others that we know not of?  *Thus conscience does make  
>  cowards of us all,*  
>  And thus the native hue of resolution  
>  Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,  
>  And enterprises of great pitch and moment  
>  With this regard their currents turn awry  
>  And lose the name of action. ...  
>     
>  "Sound familiar, Chief?"  
>     
>  "You *remembered* all that?!"  
>     
>  "I had to memorize the whole damn thing in college."  
>     
>  "But, Jim, he's talking about suicide."  
>     
>  "Well, yeah, but I was thinking about a metaphorical death.  When we  
>  were in Peru and I had that spirit journey that I told you about, I had  
>  to be willing to die as my old self to be born as a confirmed Sentinel,  
>  my new self...  And there's more in that speech than the desire for  
>  suicide; there's all that stuff about fear of the unknown holding us  
>  back.  I was beginning to feel ..."  
>     
>  "Like the unknown could not be any worse than the known!  Yeah, me too!  
>  It was making me *crazy*!  
>     
>  "But, Jim, how did you figure it out?  I mean, I never.."  
>     
>  "Blair, I hate to say this, honey, but in the past couple of days you  
>  have not been exactly Gary Cooper."  
>     
>  "'Honey?'"  
>     
>  "It's true, I missed a LOT of clues, but ... *Timon and Pumba?!*  
>  Sandburg I'd never heard your heart race so fast.  And taking me to  
>  the*phonetics lab*?  Even *I* figured out the phonetics lab.  And  
>  the*look* in your eyes when you told me all about *kissing*?  Even if I  
>  had  
>  been dead *wrong,* that look *alone* woulda done me in."  
>     
>  "I always knew you were smart, man."  
>     
>  "Gotta be, to keep up with *you,* sweetie."  
>     
>  "'Sweetie?!' My *mom* calls me that and you are *definitely* NOT my  
>  mom."  
>     
>  "But Blair, sweetie, you said we were *family.*"  
>     
>  "Cut that out!  I said you were my family, but you are NOT Naomi.  And  
>  only *Naomi* gets away with that."  
>     
>  "I hear that."  
>     
>  "Jim ... you are SO not Naomi."  
>     
>  "Not even if I give you some tongue?"  
>     
>  "Aww, ma-an."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri 1 Jan 1999 12:45 a.m.  
>     
>   "So, Jim, how into Shakespeare are you?"  
>     
>  "No more than anybody else who's been to college, Chief.  I'm just as  
>  capable of misquoting him or quoting him out of context as the next guy.  
>  Why?  You got a hankerin' to have me recite poetry to you, my Puckish  
>  one?"  
>     
>  "Jim.  Just drive the truck."  
>     
>  "Something the matter, Chief?"  
>     
>  "I just want to be home."  
>     
>  "In a hurry, are you?"  
>     
>  "Jim."  
>     
>  "'A consummation devoutly to be wished'?"  
>     
>  "Jim!  Stop it."  
>     
>  "Sorry, Blair."  
>     
>  "Just nervous."  
>     
>  "Makes two of us."  
>     
>  "Yeah, two of us.  Partners. In this together, right?"  
>     
>  "That's how *I* see it, Chief."  
>     
>  "Me too, Jim.  With you all the way.  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Jim.  Watch the road, man."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, about 1:15 a.m.  
>     
>  "Now that we're safely home, you wanna talk, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Aww, man, Jim, it's late!"  
>     
>  "You going to be able to sleep now, if we don't talk?"  
>     
>  "Well, no ... not really.  So where do you want to start?"  
>     
>  "Maybe .. the beginning?  When did you know?"  
>     
>  "I didn't know until tonight.  In the phonetics lab."  
>     
>  "Not about me, about *you*."  
>     
>  "Oh. Can't really pinpoint a time.  By the time I knew, it had already  
>  happened.  Maybe about the time we went to Peru."  
>     
>  "But Chief! That was a couple of *years* ago!"  
>     
>  "Yeah, well I knew but I didn't know-know, you know?"  
>     
>  "Oddly enough, Chief, that makes sense; I think that's pretty much what  
>  happened here."  
>     
>  "So ...?"  
>     
>  "So .... Ah, nah, Sandburg, not the eyes!  Don't do the eyes!"  
>     
>  "The eyes, Jim?"  
>     
>  "How do you *do* that?"  
>     
>  "Do what?"  
>     
>  "How do you get your eyes to do both love AND panic all at once?"  
>     
>  "Like I have any control over that!  I feel both, the eyes do both.  
>  That's all there is to it, Jim."  
>     
>  "Love and panic.  Kind of sums it up, I guess."  
>     
>  "Yeah, well, I figure in time the former will take care of the latter,  
>  don't you think?"  
>     
>  "Yes, Blair, I do.  How much time do you want?"  
>     
>  "With you?  All of it."  
>     
>  "You got it."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, about 2:10 a.m.  
>     
>  "Now what?"  
>     
>  "Thought you'd want to talk more, Chief."  
>     
>  "I do.  Just ... I'm really tired.  And I want to think about stuff ...  
>  and ...it's late and ..."  
>     
>  "Where to, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Where to?"  
>     
>  "Upstairs or down?"  
>     
>  "Aw, ma-an."  
>     
>  "There go the eyes, again."  
>     
>  "Cut it out, man."  
>     
>  "Need help up the stairs, Blair?"  
>     
>  "I'm not drunk or weak or ..."  
>     
>  "Not that kind of help."  
>     
>  "What kind of help are you talkin' about, then?"  
>     
>  "Just ... here.... Give me your hand.  
>     
>  "Like you said, we're in this together."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Which side, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Left?  I like to sleep on my left side, it's more calming, somehow."  
>     
>  "Left, it is.  
>     
>  "You going to sleep in your clothes?"  
>     
>  "Don't laugh, man.  Well, OK, if it wasn't me, it'd be funny. Just ..."  
>     
>  "It's OK.  It's all OK ...  
>     
>  "Well, except for the shoes.  I insist that you take off your shoes  
>  before coming to bed."  
>     
>  "You're so *strict,* Jim."  
>     
>  "Yeah, well, I'm old and set in my ways."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Hmmm?"  
>     
>  "Happy New Year"  
>     
>  "Love you, too, Chief."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 4:05 a.m.  
>     
>  "Blair, honey?"  
>     
>  "Mmmm?"  
>     
>  "Quit stealing the covers."  
>     
>  "Cold."  
>     
>  "You're sleeping in your sweats and wrapped in *all* the covers and  
>  you're *cold*?!"  
>     
>  "Yes. ... 'Honey'?  You called me 'honey'?"  
>     
>  "Yes.  And I'll start calling you worse, if you don't let loose with  
>  some of those covers."  
>     
>  "Here."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Blair?"  
>     
>  "Hmmm?"  
>     
>  "You still cold?"  
>     
>  "Yeah.... It'll go away, eventually.  It's just ... anxiety interferes  
>  with circulation..."  
>     
>  "Would you feel better in your ... in the other bed?  ... Less anxious?"  
>     
>  "Less anxious but less loved, Jim.  
>     
>  "It's really a no-brainer where I want to be."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Hmmmm?"  
>     
>  "Let go for a minute, I gotta turn over now."  
>     
>  "Anything you want, Sugarbritches."  
>     
>  "Sugarbritches?!  Man, that one makes my *teeth* hurt -- hand me  
>  the*insulin*"  
>     
>  "<chuckle>"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 8:45 a.m.  
>     
>  "Jim."  
>     
>  "Mmmmm?"  
>     
>  "Let go, buddy."  
>     
>  "Don'wanna."  
>     
>  "Jim, I gotta pee, man."  
>     
>  "Come right back?"  
>     
>  "Jim, just give me a few minutes.  My teeth have sludge on them and I've  
>  got bedhead and ..."  
>     
>  "You're beautiful, Chief."  
>     
>  "C'*mon,* man!  I know what I look like in the morning.  My hair looks  
>  like I stuck a finger in the wall socket, I get creases all over my face  
>  from the folds in the pillow cases, my former 5 o'clock shadow is  
>  halfway to a beard ..."  
>     
>  "You're beautiful to *me.*"  
>     
>  "Aww, man.  I figured you for a bit of a mush, but don't tell me you're  
>  going to start singing along with Joe Cocker!"  
>     
>  "If Marge Simpson can sing it to Homer, I can sing it to you."  
>     
>  "Can I call you 'Marge'?"  
>     
>  "Can I call you 'Sugarbritches'?"  
>     
>  "<gaag> Guess not."  
>     
>  "Thought you had to pee, Sandburg."  
>     
>  "Wow! All the way from 'Sugarbritches' to 'Sandburg' in the space of 2  
>  seconds!  Talk about mood swings!"  
>     
>  "Blair, honey... darlin'... Just go do what you gotta do so you can get  
>  back in here.  Before I change my mind about early morning snuggling."  
>     
>  "Oh."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "That was fast."  
>     
>  "Well, yeah, I was motivated."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 9:45 a.m.  
>     
>  "You still OK with the guys coming over to watch football, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yeah .. um .. OK .. but .."  
>     
>  "But what?"  
>     
>  "But none of that 'honey' stuff in front of the guys, OK?"  
>     
>  "OK, no nicknames that can cause cavities.  Check.  Anything else?"  
>     
>  "Not ready for any 'announcements,' OK?"  
>     
>  "OK. ... But I think Connor may guess..."  
>     
>  "Megan!  Yes.  She'll know.  Oh, man!"  
>     
>  "Breathe, Sandburg.  We'll just pull her aside and tell her to keep a  
>  lid on it.  Fair enough?"  
>     
>  "Sure.  She'll be cool."  
>     
>  "Yeah, she's pretty good about keeping secrets; pretty good about  
>  figuring them out, too."  
>     
>  "Well, she *is* a detective."  
>     
>  "A better one than I was, this time. ... And don't you *dare* tell her I  
>  said that."  
>     
>  "Won't breathe a word."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 10:30 a.m.  
>     
>  "Sandy, where does this go?"  
>     
>  "In the kitchen on the ... here I'll show you."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "So .. did you tell him?  ... You did!  I can tell!"  
>     
>  "Megan, can we just keep this between us?  Keep this private?"  
>     
>  "Sure thing, Sandy. ... What did he *say* when you ... oh! Never mind.  
>  Sorry."  
>     
>  "It's OK, Megan, ... just ..."  
>     
>  "Hey, Sandburg!  Stop flirting with Connor and come join the party!"  
>     
>  "Flirting? Me?  Hey! You're supposed to *eat* the popcorn, not throw  
>  it!"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, about 2:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "So, Sandy, who's winning?"  
>     
>  "Don't know, doesn't matter."  
>     
>  "You're spending a whole day watching games and it doesn't matter who  
>  wins?"  
>     
>  "Well, it might matter to somebody here ... for a couple of days ...  
>  but it's really about male bonding."  
>     
>  "Then why did you invite *me*?"  
>     
>  "Aren't you one of the guys, Megan?"  
>     
>  "Smartass."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "And really it goes way beyond the usual bonding, skirting the edges of  
>  homoeroticism."  
>     
>  "Sandburg.  Do. Not. Go. There."  
>     
>  "But, Simon, it's true!  
>     
>  "Big beefy guys patting each other's butts?  Guys huddling together with  
>  their arms around each other?  Grabbing balls from between the legs of  
>  guys who are bent over with their asses in their team mates' faces?  
>  It's so *obvious*!"  
>     
>  "That may be, Blair, but I don't think most people really want to think  
>  about it."  
>     
>  "Well, *I* don't mind thinking about it, Sandy.  I think you have a good  
>  point."  
>     
>  "Thanks, Megan.  Actually, women tend to be more open-minded than men  
>  about this stuff."  
>     
>  "Well, I don't know, Chief.  What if the sport were played by women?  
>  Megan? ...  Would you mind hearing about the subtext, then? ...  Megan?"  
>     
>  "No.  I don't seem to mind, Jim."  
>     
>  "With you there, Connor."  
>     
>  "Simon!"  
>     
>  "This is just *so* typical!"  
>     
>  "Chief?"  
>     
>  "Sorry, Simon.  It's just that when it's women, it's somehow OK.  More  
>  than OK, judging by the drool on everybody's chins here.  But if it's  
>  men, it's 'DO NOT GO THERE.' No wonder men are such repressed assholes  
>  sometimes!"  
>     
>  "Easy, Chief."  
>     
>  "Sorry guys."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Anybody want another beer while I'm up?"  
>     
>  "Sure, Sandburg, how about another round."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "What's up with Sandburg, Jim?"  
>     
>  "He's had a rather disconcerting couple of days, Simon.  He'll be OK."  
>     
>  "If you say so."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Hey, Chief, you want help in there?"  
>     
>  "I'd appreciate it."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "So, Chief...."  
>     
>  "Why are you whispering, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Love you, Sugarbritches."  
>     
>  "Jim!"  
>     
>  "Football giving you ideas?"  
>     
>  "Jim!"  
>     
>  "Or is there something in your head screaming 'DO NOT GO THERE'?"  
>     
>  "OK, so I'm busted. Very perceptive."  
>     
>  "Not really. Lotta people get pissed when they see their own 'faults'  
>  surface in others.  Nothing new."  
>     
>  "Jim, how can you stand it?"  
>     
>  "What, Blair?"  
>     
>  "My panic-fits.  Here you've put yourself out there and I'm ..."  
>     
>  "You're you.  You've always been like this.  And you usually come back  
>  down to earth.  And it's always worth waiting for the return trip."  
>     
>  "Aww, ma-an.  How do I deserve you?"  
>     
>  "You don't."  
>     
>  "Hey, guys!  Quit your bonding and get some beer in here!"  
>     
>  "Coming, guys!  Jim, man, cut it out!"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 6:15 p.m.  
>     
>  "Bye, guys!"  
>     
>  "Thanks, Simon."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "G'night, Sandy.  You two going to be OK? .. Never mind ... Good start  
>  to the new year, wouldn't you say?"  
>     
>  "You could say that, Connor."  
>     
>  "Thanks for everything, Megan.  Happy New Year."  
>     
>  "Yeah, from me too, Connor.  Thanks."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim?  
>     
>  "Mmm?"  
>     
>  "The Rally is next Friday and we haven't made any firm plans, yet and  
>  I'd really like to know, because --"  
>     
>  "Let's go."  
>     
>  "You sure you can get the days .. ?"  
>     
>  "I wanted to surprise you, but I guess now is the time.  I asked  
>  Simon for a week.  Told him there was something I needed to do, told him  
>  it was family business."  
>     
>   "You *lied* to *Simon*?"  
>     
>  "Not exactly a lie, Chief.  You're family.  I figured we should take  
>  some time away from stresses around here.  Figure some stuff out.  Have  
>  some fun together.  
>     
>  "And yeah, to answer a question you once asked -- I *do* remember fun,  
>  Blair. And for the past 3 years, most of it has been associated  
>  with*you.*"  
>     
>  "Jim!"  
>     
>  "That color looks good on you.  Sort of a magenta."  
>     
>  "Aw, man, cut it out."  
>     
>  "So, anyway ...  I figure we can leave Tuesday morning. If we drive  
>  about 400 miles a day or so, we can get there by Thursday night.  
>     
>  "And you remember my sources?  I found us a place to stay with about 10  
>  other fans."  
>     
>  "Man, Jim that's great!  I guess I'll have to e-mail my on-line friend  
>  and let her know.  I had arranged for a possible place with her but I  
>  tell her that you made other arrangements."  
>     
>  "You do that.  And no flirting."  
>     
>  "Ellison!  I *told* you .... oh ... Man, you are so *evil*!  You really  
>  have to stop that."  
>     
>  "But you're so much fun to tease."  
>     
>  "Watch it Jim.  Payback can be a bitch."  
>     
>  "Threats, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Just a warning."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 7:15 p.m.  
>     
>  "Blair?"  
>     
>  "Hmm?"  
>     
>  "Can I use your laptop?  I don't want to go all the way to the station  
>  to e-mail my contact about the Rally."  
>     
>  "Sure, Jim, anytime.  I need to check my e-mail later tonight, though."  
>     
>  "Show me how your e-mail program works, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Sure.  No problem.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 20:00:16 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: The Rally  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  Just wanted to drop a line to let you know that BOTH of us will  
>  definitely be coming down for the Rally.  
>     
>  We'll be arriving Thursday night after a 3-day drive.  
>     
>  Is there anything you would like us to bring?  
>     
>  I'm looking forward to finally meeting you in person and introducing you  
>  to my friend.  
>     
>  Thanks again,  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 20:15:03 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Just Checking In  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  Haven't heard from you in a couple of days.  
>     
>  Did you have that talk?  
>     
>  Are you still going to the Rally?  
>     
>  Just checking in on you.  Hope you're doing OK.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999, 10:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Jim?  Why is this stuff so easy for you?"  
>     
>  "What stuff?"  
>     
>  "This falling in love with your roommate stuff.  Your guy roommate.  
>     
>  "It's like you just ...  do it... You are so playful about it. You don't  
>  seem worried or scared or anything.  It's like you're used to this."  
>     
>  "Well, I *am* used to it."  
>     
>  "What!?  You said you never had a relationship with a guy before. How  
>  could you be 'used to it'?"  
>     
>  "I'm used to being in love with my roommate because I've been in love  
>  with him seems like *forever.* Loving you is *easy.*"  
>     
>  "None of this makes you nervous?"  
>     
>  "Oh, yeah. Lots of it.  Talking about how I feel is up at the top of the  
>  list.  
>     
>  "I worry that you'll change your mind, be scared off.  I'm worried  
>  you'll get bored with me, that I'm not smart enough.  
>     
>  "I'm worried that you'll feel rushed into things, that you'll feel  
>  pressured into doing things you're not ready for.  I'm worried that as I  
>  get older, you'll lose interest in ... well, assuming you even were in  
>  the first place ...."  
>     
>  "But you seem so calm."  
>     
>  "Yeah, it's strange.  I do have all those worries, but I still feel ..  
>  calm.  It's like I have .. 'faith' .. for once that it'll all be OK."  
>     
>  "Wow.  That's great, man."  
>     
>  "Yeah, isn't it?"  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Hmm?"  
>     
>  "I'm not going to change my mind.  I may be a neurotic mess, but I  
>  refuse to be scared off.  I can't imagine thinking of you as boring.  
>  You are hell of smart.  
>     
>  "And I've loved you so long I don't even know when it started."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Jim?  ... What's the matter, man? .. oh .. I've never seen you ..  
>  Here. Here's a Kleenex. ... Would a hug be OK?"  
>     
>  "More than OK, Chief."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:54:59 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc: Subject: The Rally  
>     
>  Allison,  
>     
>  I'm sorry to be telling this so late.  
>     
>  My roommate, unbeknownst to me, had already made plans to stay at a  
>  fan's house next weekend.  He wanted to surprise me and it seemed so  
>  important to him that he offer the trip as a gift, so I've decided to go  
>  along with his plans on this.  
>     
>  I really hope this won't be an inconvenience for you.  It'll make your  
>  place a little less crowded.  OR you'll have room for 2 more fans.  
>     
>  :)  
>     
>  I'd like to meet you at the rally.  I hear they're giving out name tags.  
>  I'll put my on-line nick on mine and look for yours.  Maybe we can all  
>  go out for beer, or something.  
>     
>  Again, thank you SO much for offering your house.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 20:30:39 -0800 (PST)  
>     
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Just Checking In  
>     
>  On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Haven't heard from you in a couple of days.  
>  :  
>  : Did you have that talk?  
>     
>  Yes.  
>     
>  : Are you still going to the Rally?  
>     
>  Yes.  
>     
>  : Just checking in on you.  Hope you're doing OK.  
>     
>  Thanks.  
>     
>  I'm doing OK, just *stunned.*  
>     
>  I feel like the dog that chased cars and then was surprised as hell when  
>  he actually caught one.  
>     
>  How about you?  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999, 12:30 a.m.  
>     
>  "You coming up, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Um ..."  
>     
>  "No pressure.  Your choice.  I'll be here."  
>     
>  "Be there in a minute."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "An extra blanket, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, I just ... thought .. that .. if we had this, then I wouldn't  
>  have to wear ... these."  
>     
>  "Oh ... Just a minute ....  So ... if we add this second one, does that  
>  mean the boxers come off, too?"  
>     
>  "Aww, man, Jim...  
>     
>  ".. You're doing it again, aren't you?  I warned you about that.  
>  Payback is tomorrow.  When you least expect it."  
>     
>  "I'm shaking in my boots."  
>     
>  "You aren't wearing any boots."  
>     
>  "Well, then, I'm shaking in my boxers."  
>     
>  "Now, that's a picture I'll treasure always."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Jim?  .. Buddy? .."  
>     
>  "Mmm?"  
>     
>  "My hair is caught in your armpit and I can't move."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Blair? .. Honey?  What are you doing?"  
>     
>  "Too many covers, Jim."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:50:14 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Re: Just Checking In  
>     
>  On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : I'm doing OK, just *stunned.*  
>  :  
>  : I feel like the dog that chased cars and then was surprised as hell  
>  : when he actually caught one.  
>  :  
>  : How about you?  
>     
>  Me?  
>     
>  I'm the happiest I've been in years!  
>     
>  I have you to thank for helping me get a clue.  
>     
>  He's such a kick!  
>     
>  Sorry to hear that your experience has not been so positive. Is there a  
>  problem?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:13:24 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: wolf@washnet.com  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: No Problem, Really  
>     
>  On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : Sorry to hear that your experience has not been so positive.  Is there  
>  : a problem?  
>     
>  No.  No problem, really.  
>     
>  I gave the wrong impression.  
>     
>  I'm stunned -- yes.  But it's more like I'm in shock.  I didn't really  
>  know what to expect.  I guess I didn't think he'd want me.  But he does.  
>     
>  And now I'm afraid to disappoint him.  
>     
>  And I'm afraid of all the other stuff, which I told myself I wouldn't  
>  worry about.  
>     
>  You were right, though.  He is trying to help me through this.  And I'm  
>  really not much help to him and it must be pretty much of a shock for  
>  him, too.  
>     
>  I'm really in over my head here.  
>     
>  Gotta go.  I think we're going to run out of paper bags before this week  
>  is up.  
>     
>  By the way, Happy New Year.  
>     
>  What a way to start *this* one out!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:47:36 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Request for Questions  
>     
>  Happy New Year, Listsibs!!  
>     
>  The list has been pretty quiet lately, so I thought I'd take this  
>  opportunity during the lull, to let you know some of my plans and to  
>  make a request.  
>     
>  My roommate and I will definitely be going to the Rally in LA next week  
>  and I thought that since so many people are unable to go and we've been  
>  so lucky and since you guys have been so supportive of me in the  
>  discussions these past few weeks -- I could bring back a detailed report  
>  of events to share with you all.  
>     
>  I'll be limited, of course, to those things I actually participate in.  
>     
>  But I thought I'd give you a chance to get a fuller report by suggesting  
>  that you post questions to the list.  
>     
>  That is, what aspects of the Rally do you want me to report on?  
>     
>  What questions about the events of the weekend do you want me to answer?  
>     
>  I'm hoping that this is considered sufficiently on-topic for the list  
>  and that our dear listmom approves.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999, 5:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim!  I have a great idea!"  
>     
>  "Yeah?  Let's hear it."  
>     
>  "Well, since we've sort of begun a new phase in our relationship, I  
>  thought we could acknowledge it in some way, sort of mark it."  
>     
>  "Sandburg, it's only been two *days*.  Less than that, even.  We haven't  
>  even ... What kind of acknowledgment are we talking about here?"  
>     
>  "Well, I thought it should be something symbolic and fun. So I got this  
>  great idea when I went to the hardware store on the way home."  
>     
>  "The hardware store?  You got an idea about our love life at  
>  the*hardware store*?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, it's perfect.  We paint your truck."  
>     
>  "Paint my truck?!"  
>     
>  "Sure, Jim.  A lot of people sort of announce a change in their inner  
>  selves by changing the appearance of their outer selves.  Since we spend  
>  a lot of time in the truck, we are, in effect, the truck's inner self.  
>  And since an aspect of our lives is changing, that means the truck's  
>  inner self is changing.  SO we need to change the outer appearance of  
>  the truck."  
>     
>  "Sandburg..."  
>     
>  "But wait, Jim!  Look what I have here.  I got these color samples and  
>  some brushes from the hardware store.  I was thinking purple would be a  
>  great color -- sort of symbolic and all.  But I didn't want to  
>  unilaterally choose the shade of purple so I brought these color  
>  strips."  
>     
>  "Sandburg!  I am not painting my truck purple.  I have to use it for  
>  work.  Cops do *not* have lavender trucks."  
>     
>  "Well, Jim, I thought about that.  Maybe we could just do a temporary  
>  paint job for our trip to LA and then we could get a new, real one when  
>  we get back -- any boring cop color you want.  
>     
>  "I figure we could paint the whole thing one of these purples or  
>  lavenders.  We could do it kinda like those VW buses from the '60s, you  
>  know, with a few, cool symbolic images -- peace symbols, whatever...  
>     
>  "And then, on one side we could put a big heart with 'Joe and Jake  
>  Forever' in it, in honor of the return of The Watchman.  
>     
>  "And then, on the other side we could do another heart with 'J \+ B' --  
>  sort of discreetly done.  I thought it would be kinda of romantic.  What  
>  do you think?"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, are you outta your goddamn mind!  That's the most... That's  
>  ...  I can't even *begin* ..."  
>     
>  "Gotcha."  
>     
>  "Oh, fuck."  
>     
>  "Warned ya, man.  Paybacks are hell."  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999, 7:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim?  What kind of place will we be staying at when we go to LA?"  
>     
>  "I thought I mentioned that it was a fellow fan's house.  She's letting  
>  ten to twelve people stay there."  
>     
>  "That's a lot of people.  Where's everybody going to sleep?"  
>     
>  "Well, it sounds like everybody's supposed to bring sleeping bags.  But  
>  from her description of what she's planned, I doubt that we'll get much  
>  sleep."  
>     
>  "Just *what* is she planning?"  
>     
>  "She says there will be lots of video-watching, talking, eating popcorn,  
>  giggling, stuff like that."  
>     
>  "Well ... um ... what type of .. um .. sleeping arrangements are we  
>  talking?"  
>     
>  "Didn't I just say 'sleeping bags,' Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, but .. um .. zipped together or what?  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Sorry.  I just had this bizarre image of 12 sleeping bags all zipped  
>  together, with all these giggling Watchman fans zipped up like a  
>  sandwich."  
>     
>  "Good one, Jim.  ... But you *know* what I'm asking."  
>     
>  "I do know. And you're starting to hit on the stuff we *haven't* talked  
>  about yet.  
>     
>  "... It all seems so backwards.  ... We haven't even ... 'consummated'  
>  ... this ... and we're wondering about whether a bunch of relative  
>  strangers can witness us sharing a sleeping bag.  
>     
>  "It's just so early in ... this .. 'new phase of our relationship,' as  
>  you called it.  I really don't feel like ... sharing us, yet.  Does that  
>  make sense, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Absolutely, Jim.  Separate bags, it is.  ... But what about ..."  
>     
>  "What about what?"  
>     
>  "PDA's"  
>     
>  "PDA's?"  
>     
>  "'Public Displays of Affection,' Jim."  
>     
>  "I don't know, Sandburg.  I'm a pretty private guy about stuff like  
>  that.  I mean, you didn't want me using the gooey nicknames in front of  
>  the guys, right?  Same thing."  
>     
>  "You want me to go on this trip for a week so that we can 'work out some  
>  things' about this new facet of our relationship, and you don't want us  
>  to be affectionate?!  At all?!"  
>     
>  "We can be affectionate -- in *private.*"  
>     
>  "But there won't *be* any privacy in a living room full of giggling  
>  fans.  We won't even have privacy when we *sleep*.  And I'm *not*  
>  sneaking into the bathroom with you to make out -- that's just too  
>  demeaning."  
>     
>  "Well, there is one option that the host brought up.  She offered us the  
>  use of a spare bedroom, since most of the guests will be women. It just  
>  seemed rather unfair for the two of us to have a whole room to ourselves  
>  when there were so many people sharing the floor."  
>     
>  "Jim, I say we take it."  
>     
>  "I thought you were made of nobler stuff, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, I'm not.  If we were an old married couple and used to all of  
>  this, it wouldn't matter.  But ... like you said, this is too new.  
>     
>  "It's like a honeymoon, for god's sake, and if I don't have to spend it  
>  with a dozen pairs of eyes *looking* at us, that's all the better."  
>     
>  "OK, Chief.  The idea suits me just fine.  I'll appreciate the privacy,  
>  myself.  I'll ask her, make sure it's still an option.  But you do  
>  realize, don't you, that being in our own room won't absolutely solve  
>  this problem of feeling 'watched.'"  
>     
>  "What d'you mean?"  
>     
>  "Think about it.  Two guys decide they need to sleep in private, so they  
>  opt to share the one spare bed in the only guest bedroom. Outside the  
>  closed door are 10 giggling fans of the slashiest show on  
>  television.*You* do the math."  
>     
>  "Oh, man!"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999, 9:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Here, Chief, I got you a little present ... but you gotta let me use  
>  it first."  
>     
>  "That's a pretty weird way to give a guy a present, isn't it, Jim?"  
>     
>  "It'll make sense once you open it."  
>     
>  "A hairbrush.  Nice carving on the wood handle.   This is a really nice,  
>  Jim. ... But you want to use it first?  That is so weird, not to  
>  mention not exactly hygienic .. oh."  
>     
>  "*Like* that, Blair?"  
>     
>  "Oh, y-e-a-h.  I haven't had my hair brushed in *ages*.  I love it!  
>  What made you think of this?"  
>     
>  "Read it somewhere.  And I *love* touching your hair. It's just ... so  
>   ..."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Hmm?"  
>     
>  "Where'd ya go, buddy?"  
>     
>  "You probably have no idea what a sensuous experience this is for me --  
>  immersing my hands in this lush mass of hair .. it's so ...."  
>     
>  "Um.. Jim?  Where are you going with this?  
>     
>  "... Jim?  ... Mmmmimmm?! ..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - mmm! mmm--air!  Jim!  
>  Air!"  
>     
>  "Where are *we* going with this, Chief?"  
>     
>  "This-this?  or the big THIS?"  
>     
>  "Take your pick, Blair."  
>     
>  "Well .. I'm pretty nervous .. I mean, I've never .. with a guy .. and  
>  .. I know that .. *eventually* .. I want to .. with you ..."  
>     
>  "It's OK, Chief.  Just breathe."  
>     
>  "I'll be back in a minute, Jim."  
>     
>  "Where're you going?"  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Had to breathe into a paper bag."  
>     
>  "A paper bag, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, it's a common way to deal with panic attacks, hyperventilation."  
>     
>  "Yeah, I knew about that.  But I didn't know ... How often do you do  
>  that?"  
>     
>  "Well, I hadn't for a long time, but lately ... I knew I was going to  
>  tell you how I felt and ... I just froze up every time I thought about  
>  the whole 'guy' thing and so I've been keeping a stash of paper bags in  
>  my room.  Oh, man, you must think I'm so lame!  
>     
>  "This is so embarrassing. I mean, people useta razz me about how  
>  'active' I was and sort of assumed that I had all this *experience* but  
>  it really wasn't true and anyway, it's just not the same.  Well, maybe  
>  technically it is, but it just doesn't seem like it's the same..  
>     
>  "Aw, Jim, I love ya, man.  Please don't change your mind just because  
>  I'm-mmmm! Mmmmmmmmmmm."  
>     
>  "It's OK, Blair.  It's all OK.  
>     
>  "It was OK Thursday night when you wore 3 layers of clothes to bed.  It  
>  was OK last night when you insisted on bringing up an extra blanket  
>  and then kicking off all the covers.  It'll be OK tonight when you do  
>  whatever weird thing you come up with to cope with all that anxiety.  
>     
>  "It's all OK."  
>     
>  "But for how long, Jim?"  
>     
>  "I've waited 3 years, not knowing how you felt.  
>  Knowing how you feel, I can wait as long as it takes."  
>     
>  "Ohh, ma-an.  Love you *so* much!"  
>     
>  "Yeah, me too, buddy."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:04:11 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Subject: See you at the Rally  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I *am* glad you and your roommate are both coming and devastated that  
>  you won't be with us....<g>  I think it is so cool that your roomie made  
>  those arrangements to surprise you!  I like him already. And you bet  
>  we'll all get together at the rally....you buying?  
>     
>  Can't wait to put names to faces and *see* all the great friends we have  
>  all been chatting with for these several weeks.  
>     
>  BTW:  Happy New Year, Wolf....may 1999 be your best yet!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:18:48 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Re: Confirmation  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  Great news!  Glad you are *both* coming and after a three day drive?  
>  I'll make sure the shower is free....<g>  You'll both be exhausted but  
>  hopefully up for some conversation and maybe a few fave episodes of  
>  Watchman?  
>     
>  I Don't drink coffee or tea, so you might want to bring your  
>  favorites....We'll all be leaving bright and early Friday  
>  morning...Rally, here we come!  
>     
>  Happy New Year, Panther and  see you Thursday night!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999, 8:00 a.m.  
>     
>  "Dammit, Sandburg, you're worse than a goddam cat!"  
>     
>  "A cat, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Yeah.  When Carolyn and I were married we had this *huge* cat called,  
>  cleverly enough, 'Fat Cat.' He would come into the bedroom in the middle  
>  of the night, whenever he felt like he wasn't getting enough attention,  
>  and would fucking wake me up by creeping slowly up from the foot of the  
>  bed as though he were stalking me.  And then he would *stand on my  
>  chest* and just stare at my face.  If the creeping and stalking didn't  
>  wake me, the staring did.  
>     
>  "It was the creepiest sensation to feel those eyes on me, just staring.  
>  I'd wake up right out of a dead sleep and see those giant yellow,  
>  unblinking eyes not two inches from mine.  The cat's lucky I never  
>  killed him."  
>     
>  "I wasn't stalking you, Jim, I was just looking at your face ... and  
>  thinking.  Didn't mean to wake you."  
>     
>  "Well, now that you've got my attention, what were you thinking?"  
>     
>  "I was wondering what this is like for you, the effects on your senses,  
>  I mean."  
>     
>  "Where's the clock?"  
>     
>  "Clock?"  
>     
>  "It took you from midnight January one to ... eight a. m. January third  
>  for you to ask.  I'm impressed by your restraint, Sandburg."  
>     
>  "Yeah, well, I've been in shock.  
>     
>  "But really, I was wondering how it is for you to sleep with someone  
>  else and wake up to morning breath and all the extra smells and I know  
>  that having someone else in the bed raises the ambient temperature. And  
>  then there's the texture of my beard.  And even though I've got my T-  
>  shirt and boxers on, you can probably feel some of my hairiness. And  
>  that's just smell and touch. You probably are pretty sensitive to  
>  snoring and no matter what you and Joe Cocker claim, I'm not that great  
>  to look at in the morning.  It must be an incredible assault on your  
>  senses, man."  
>     
>  "Blair, honey, it's not like any of that information hasn't been  
>  available to me before."  
>     
>  "But, Jim, the proximity *must* make a difference."  
>     
>  "You're right, Blair, it does."  
>     
>  "Well, how can you stand it?  Are you able to dial it down as soon as  
>  you wake up, or what?"  
>     
>  "How can I stand it?  
>     
>  "You're right.  It's definitely quite an ordeal.  I have to suffer  
>  feeling that lush, soft, springy hair brushing over my arm; smelling  
>  your shampoo, which seems to remind me of cookies, for some reason;  
>  hearing your little, breathy sounds as you sleep; seeing those huge,  
>  beautiful, dark blue eyes, first thing in the morning, looking at me as  
>  though I were ... I don't know what."  
>     
>  "Aw, man."  
>     
>  "Yeah, it's a real pain, but I wouldn't miss that blush for the world."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "So, Chief, which chapter is that going in?"  
>     
>  "Jim!  I wouldn't! I couldn't do that to you .. To us ...  
>     
>  "Ohh, fuck.  You asshole. Haven't you learned your lesson, yet?!"  
>     
>  "Why should I, when your lesson plans are so creatively conceived and  
>  implemented?"  
>     
>  "Jim.."  
>     
>  "I bet you can't top the purple truck."  
>     
>  "Is that a dare?  Do you *want* me to top the purple truck?"  
>     
>  "Well, actually, Blair ... Love of my Life ... when I imagine you  
>  topping, it usually isn't my truck that comes to mind.  
>     
>  "Close your mouth, Chief, you look like a beached fish."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999, 11:30 a.m.  
>     
>  "Um, Chief?  Did you ever find out how to join one of those lists we  
>  were talking about a while back?"  
>     
>  "Uh .. yeah, Jim.  I actually joined a couple -- one for The X-Files and  
>  one for The Watchman."  
>     
>  "Any news about the Rally or anything on the Watchman list?"  
>     
>  "No, it's actually been pretty quiet.  I was getting more information  
>  from my e-pal than from the list, for a while there, so I stopped  
>  checking in.  Why?"  
>     
>  "Just wondering."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Out of curiosity, Chief, is that a regular list or a slash list?"  
>     
>  "Well, technically it's an 'adult' list.  That means people can discuss  
>  just about anything; it doesn't have to be slash.  But most of what I've  
>  seen has been pretty slashy."  
>     
>  "Have you saved any of the posts, by any chance?"  
>     
>  "Nah.  I have pretty limited storage, so anything I download I delete  
>  just before I log off."  
>     
>  "So ... I can't ... maybe read some of the old stuff ... get a feel for  
>  the people there?"  
>     
>  "No. It's all gone, Jim.  Sorry."  
>     
>  "Well, maybe after we come back from the Rally, could you let me read  
>  some of the stuff before you log off?  Or save it to a floppy?"  
>     
>  "Sure, Jim!  There's really nice people on that list.  Smart, too."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:28:04 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A Thankyou  
>     
>  I know I was driving you all crazy with my on-line anxiety attacks about  
>  should I/shouldn't I 'confess' to my roommate.  A few of you wrote to me  
>  either on-list or in private e-mail telling me to 'just do it, already.'  
>  My own private Nike commercials.  
>     
>  Since many of you have been so supportive and open, I wanted to let you  
>  know that I have, in fact, 'had that talk' with my roomie.  And those of  
>  you who suggested that he might be of like mind win whatever side bets  
>  you guys were making.  
>     
>  Blew me away!  
>     
>  I'm still in shock.  
>     
>  I don't feel it would be right to go into personal details.  But I did  
>  want to share my happiness with you guys, since I really believe that it  
>  was your encouragement that gave me that push.  That and he kissed me.  
>  ;)  
>     
>  Before I veer into the land of TMI, I'll close.  
>     
>  Thanks to you all!  
>     
>  What a fantastic new year!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:54:16 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Thankyou  
>     
>  Yippee!  Good going Wolf....and Happy New Year!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:07:12 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Thankyou  
>     
>  On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>  :  
>  : Since many of you have been so supportive and open, I wanted to let  
>  : you know that I have, in fact, 'had that talk' with my roomie.  And  
>  : those of you who suggested that he might be of like mind win whatever  
>  : side bets you guys were making.  
>     
>  : [snip]  
>     
>  : I don't feel it would be right to go into personal details.  But I did  
>  : want to share my happiness with you guys, since I really believe that  
>  : it was your encouragement that gave me that push.  That and he kissed  
>  : me. ;)  
>     
>  Well, since Wolf is so courageously opening up to make his announcement,  
>  I'd like to congratulate him.  Way to go, Sport.  
>     
>  Many of you ladies on the list are unaware that Wolf and I have been  
>  corresponding off-list, and I'd like to say publicly that he has been  
>  very encouraging to me even when he himself needed a lot of support.  I  
>  wanted to publicly thank him as well as everyone else here who has  
>  written to give advice to us.  
>     
>  And just so you know, I too have taken the advice of so many of you and  
>  had the talk, also.  Glad I did.  It put my mind at ease.  
>     
>  I'll be seeing some of you at the Rally and then I can introduce you to  
>  him.  He's a great guy.  I know you'll love him almost as much as I do.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:35:37 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Request for Questions  
>     
>  On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Wolf wrote:  
>     
>  [snip]  
>  :  
>  : But I thought I'd give you a chance to get a fuller report by  
>  : suggesting that you post questions to the list.  
>  :  
>  : That is, what aspects of the Rally do you want me to report on?  
>  :  
>  : What questions about the events of the weekend do you want me to  
>  : answer?  
>     
>  I don't know whether this would constitute a spoiler, but if you get a  
>  chance to see the sneak preview of the season premier, could you let us  
>  know if, in your opinion, the new season looks like it will be more or  
>  less slashy than last season?  
>     
>  Definitely tell us if Robert Bergman and Gary Magnum actually appear and  
>  what they say about the direction of the new season.  Or does that have  
>  to go on the spoiler list?  
>     
>  Anybody else?  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 15:52:48 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: wolf@washnet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Need Help  
>     
>  Wolf,  
>     
>  I was right that my friend is a little nervous about being in an m/m  
>  relationship, even though he obviously cares about me.  
>     
>  I'm nervous also, but for some reason, it's not affecting me as  
>  adversely.  Maybe because I knew deep-down for a long time that this was  
>  part of who I was.  Maybe just because I'm older.  Maybe because the  
>  look in his eyes gives me hope.  
>     
>  It's sometimes hard for us to talk about stuff directly or all at once  
>  and I really want to help him relax.  
>     
>  Maybe you can give me some insight on how I can do that.  
>     
>  Thanks,  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 18:38:54 +0000  
>  From: Casey <caseylane@ameritech.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: Request for Questions  
>     
>  I have a question. Find out if anymore information has been given out  
>  about a possible season 5. I would also like some specific advertising  
>  plans that the Ungrateful Pigheaded Ninny's plan on. Last season was  
>  bereft of decent advertisement, which showed just how they felt about  
>  TW. They shoved that damn "Weeks Past" down our throats and even now  
>  that cartoon character is floating everywhere on their station. What  
>  about the guys?  
>     
>  Give em hell,  
>  Casey  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 18:35:36 -0500  
>  From: T <t@washnet.com>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Thankyou  
>     
>  Way to go Panther & Wolf ! Wish I was meeting you there, have fun for  
>  all of us "poor stay at homes" !!! =;-)  
>     
>  T  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:29:56 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Subject: Re: WatchAD: A Thankyou  
>     
>  Panther:  
>     
>  You are a true gentleman....Good luck and best of the New Year for you  
>  both...See you soon!  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:02:45 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: CynaraPherson@list1.channel.com  
>  To: Panther  
>  Subject: This may be too personal...  
>     
>  Hearing the good news from Wolf on-list, and not recalling seeing much  
>  from you, I thought I'd write and ask.  Off-list, in case this is too  
>  personal.  
>     
>  Did you talk to him?  How did it go?  
>     
>  Best of luck!  
>     
>  Cynara  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:03:32 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: Need Help  
>     
>  On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Panther wrote:  
>     
>  : I was right that my friend is a little nervous about being in an m/m  
>  : relationship, even though he obviously cares about me.  
>     
>  [snip]  
>     
>  : It's sometimes hard for us to talk about stuff directly or all at once  
>  : and I really want to help him relax.  
>  :  
>  : Maybe you can give me some insight on how I can do that.  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  Man, I have been pretty much a basket case so I don't know how well I  
>  can help you.  But since you've been so sympathetic to me, I'll really  
>  give it a try.  
>     
>  You need to find out *why* he's so nervous.  I don't know him, you do.  
>     
>  I'll tell you what makes *me* nervous and maybe you can ask him if those  
>  are the things that are doing it to him.  You could raise them as  
>  hypotheticals, or whatever.  
>     
>  So for me, it's obviously the sex thing.  I mean I had no problem saying  
>  the words, being affectionate, thinking about 'forever.' But it's the  
>  stuff I talked to you about before.  
>     
>  Why?  
>     
>  Good question.  
>     
>  There's the idea that it's gross that you very clearly tried to disabuse  
>  me of.  I *know* that it's not *objectively* gross, so it's got to be  
>  fear of the unknown or the unfamiliar.  
>     
>  But I think it's got to be something on top of that.  
>     
>  Like probably performance anxiety -- thinking I won't be any good at it.  
>  That he'll be disappointed in me, in us.  
>     
>  And then there's the thing about him being so *big*.  And that's not  
>  even that objective because he's like only about 5 inches taller. Maybe  
>  he outweighs me by about 50 pounds.  
>     
>  I shouldn't really be afraid that he'll crush me.  I mean how  
>  many*women* does that happen to, right?  Lots of women who are, like,  
>  5'5"  
>  have sex with guys that are 5'10"  and don't end up in the ER with their  
>  bones crushed, right?  
>     
>  And then there's the thing about my gender identity.  I always thought I  
>  was pretty open-minded -- at least I was brought up to be.  But I don't  
>  care how open-minded a person is, it's hard to let go of who  
>  you*thought* you were for almost 30 years.  And who I've been is a guy  
>  who  
>  has been only with women.  
>     
>  And then there's the whole thing about does that make me 'less  
>  masculine'?  Objectively, I don't think so.  But the messages out there,  
>  the enculturation, tell me that masculine guys don't 'go there.'  
>     
>  This whole thing really pisses me off.  I'm supposed to be an  
>  intellectual, a scientist, open-minded, and yet all these prejudices  
>  have just leaped up into my consciousness.  I don't want them to be  
>  there but they are.  
>     
>  I don't know if any of these things are the things worrying your friend,  
>  but a lot of guys apparently do worry about this stuff, according to  
>  what I've been reading \-- and I seem to be one of those guys.  
>     
>  I hope that at least some of this is helpful for you.  Let me know how  
>  it goes.  
>     
>  Good luck,  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999, 8:45 p.m.  
>     
>  "So, Chief...?"  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Wanna make some popcorn, cuddle up and watch The X-Files?"  
>     
>  "That wasn't what you were going to ask me, was it?"  
>     
>  "No. No, it wasn't.  But it was the easier of the two questions."  
>     
>  "And the other one was ..?"  
>     
>  "Are you feeling less .. nervous .. about .. us?"  
>     
>  "I think so.  My circulation isn't shutting down.  I need fewer clothes  
>  at night.  My feet aren't frozen."  
>     
>  "Does that mean you no longer have cold feet?"  
>     
>  "Ha ha ha, Jim.  No cold feet ... about snuggling, anyway.  I feel  
>  comfortable snuggling -- more than comfortable, actually. *Really* like  
>  snuggling."  
>     
>  "Which brings us back to my other question."  
>     
>  "Sure.  Popcorn. X-Files. You, me, the couch.  Lots of snuggling.  It's  
>  a plan."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999, 10:02 p.m.  
>     
>  "What was *that*!  That really sucked!"  
>     
>  "Well, they can't all be brilliant, Chief."  
>     
>  "What a waste of Bruce Campbell!  And where were Mulder and Scully?  
>  They were in this thing for about 15 minutes each.  I started to think  
>  that the real X-File was that everybody was taken over by sleep-walking  
>  zombies."  
>     
>  "You should write TV reviews for the Rainier shopper, Chief.  You could  
>  call your column "The Full Scoop" and sign it with your initials."  
>     
>  "Man, no one's razzed me about my initials since junior high!"  
>     
>  "I always wondered *what* your mom was thinking when she chose your  
>  name.  But eventually, I just figured that in your typically adaptive  
>  fashion, you just decided to take up obfuscation as a hobby, figuring it  
>  must have been your destiny or something."  
>     
>  "You're on thin ice, man."  
>     
>  "Oh yeah?  Well I've got a pillow here with your name on it."  
>     
>  "You gotta catch me first!"  
>     
>    ...  
>     
>  "This is so unfair, Jim."  
>     
>  "You're the one who decided to toss a whole pot full of water over my  
>  head; you're the one that gets to mop it up."  
>     
>  "But you're the one that pushed me into the shower with my clothes on."  
>     
>  "Well, you wouldn't let me take them off."  
>     
>  "That is so not the point, Jim."  
>     
>  "Isn't it?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999, 10:40 p.m.  
>     
>  "I'll help you mop the water, Chief, if you'll do an experiment with  
>  me."  
>     
>  "An experiment?"  
>     
>  "Sure.  You've run experiments on me for a couple of years.  Now I want  
>  to do one."  
>     
>    ...  
>     
>  "OK, what is it?"  
>     
>  "We have to do this in your room."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "OK, Chief, I'll go first.  
>     
>  ...  What do you see?"  
>     
>  "You're standing butt-naked in my room.  It's clear that the air in here  
>  is cold.  ... And now you have a shit-eating grin on your face.  
>  Now what?"  
>     
>  "Your turn."  
>     
>  "My turn. ... OK ...What do *you* see?"  
>     
>  "You -- a man who had to wear 3 layers of clothes to feel OK sleeping in  
>  my bed just 4 nights ago -- are now standing, as you put it, butt-naked  
>  right in front of me.  
>     
>  "I see a man who is showing evidence of exposure to cold air.  And his  
>  face is starting to turn a slight pink but not the magenta of just two  
>  days ago.  
>     
>  "I see a man that I love teetering on the edge of a panic attack, facing  
>  one of his fears, refusing to back down."  
>     
>  "I see a man whose speech centers just went off-line.  
>     
>  "Want a paper bag?"  
>     
>  "No.  ..  That's OK..."  
>     
>  "You want to take a moment?  ... Here.  I got out some sweats for us.  
>  You're looking cold.  ... You going to be all right?"  
>     
>  "Yeah!  I'm freezing but I'm OK....  
>     
>  " ...  Jim, man, how did you think of that?"  
>     
>  "Just popped into my head.  Don't know where it came from. Just went  
>  with my gut, this time."  
>     
>  "Good instincts."  
>     
>  "Thanks. ... Time to pack it in, Chief. ... You with me?"  
>     
>  "Not even a question, Jim.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999, 6:00 a.m.  
>     
>  "Mornin,' Sugarbritches."  
>     
>  "Coffee?  You brought me coffee in bed?"  
>     
>  "I brought *us* coffee in bed, Honeybutt."  
>     
>  "Ah, gaaagh! Jim, what's with the *names*?!  I know that you have a  
>  predilection to using nicknames, but Jim, man, I can feel my teeth  
>  decaying as we speak!"  
>     
>  "<chuckle>"  
>     
>  "So that's the way it is, is it?  Well, two can play at that game."  
>     
>  "You may be the master of obfuscation, but you'd lose at this one,  
>  Baby."  
>     
>  "You really want to play Dueling Goo, Jim?"  
>     
>  "If you think you're up to it, Blair, honey."  
>     
>  "I get 6 hours to get myself ready.  We start at noon."  
>     
>  "How do we decide the winner?"  
>     
>  "The loser makes the declaration."  
>     
>  "How's *that* gonna work?"  
>     
>  "The loser will just know that I've bested him and concede like the  
>  gentleman that he is."  
>     
>  "You're *on,* Babe."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:22:12 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To:  allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: A Request   Allison,  
>     
>  I have a favor to ask of you, again.  I really don't want to impose any  
>  more than I already have, but something's come up.  
>     
>  As I mentioned on-list, I've had that talk with my friend.  What I  
>  didn't say was that it's mutual.  
>     
>  But since neither of us has been in a relationship like this with a man,  
>  we are moving slowly.  He is especially feeling shy and we both feel the  
>  need to have *some* privacy.  
>     
>  So the favor:  
>     
>  A few weeks ago you offered us the use of a guest bedroom, since we'd be  
>  the only guys.  I had suggested that it might not be fair.  
>     
>  But Blair [that's his name] wants me to ask for the option, so that at  
>  least while we're sleeping, he won't feel stared at.  Being a rather  
>  private kind of guy myself, I can appreciate his concern.  
>     
>  So I need to know -- is the offer still good?  
>     
>  I'll accept whatever you decide.  
>     
>  If it's not going to happen, I'll simply figure out other ways to  
>  achieve privacy during the day, times and places just to ourselves.  
>  We're grown men; we can cope, if necessary.  
>     
>  You've been amazingly hospitable and I thank you again.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:54:48 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: cynara@yahoo.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: Re: This may be too personal...  
>     
>  On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Cynara wrote:  
>     
>  : Hearing the good news from Wolf on-list, and not recalling seeing much  
>  : from you, I thought I'd write and ask.  Off-list, in case this is too  
>  : personal.  
>  :  
>  : Did you talk to him?  How did it go?  
>     
>  : Best of luck!  
>     
>  Cynara,  
>     
>  You must have missed the post on the list in which I said that 'yes' I  
>  did have that talk.  
>     
>  It went well enough.  We're both new at this type of relationship with a  
>  man, so we're nervous and taking it slowly.  
>     
>  More than that, I'd rather not discuss at the moment.  
>     
>  Thanks for your good wishes.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Noon  
>     
>  "Hey, Chief, hand me that file, wouldja?"  
>     
>  "Sure thing, mon ami."  
>     
>  "What did you say?"  
>     
>  "'Mon ami.' It's French, means 'my friend.' ... What?"  
>     
>  "Sandburg, *please* tell me you're not going to start that *here.*  
>     
>  "It's noon, Jim.  You agreed, mon frere."  
>     
>  "Sandburg.  Truck.  Lunch.  Now."  
>     
>  "<giggle>"  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Where are we going, Jim, my beau?"  
>     
>  "Somewhere where nobody knows us, my little monkey."  
>     
>  "<snicker>"  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Pass the cream, Blair, sweetie."  
>     
>  "Here ya go, my big buff kiss of saccharinity."  
>     
>  "Kiss of saccharinity?"  
>     
>  "Did I say you could criticize my lexical choices, my pet?"  
>     
>  "Frankly, I didn't hear any rules mentioned, cream puff."  
>     
>  "Um .. Jim?"  
>     
>  "Nope, no rules at all.  Lunch is on me, Sweetheart.  We better be  
>  getting back."  
>     
>  "Back?"  
>     
>  "You having trouble with your hearing or with English, my tiny tasty  
>  tidbit?  Back.  As in there's work to be done.  Back."  
>     
>  "Oh, man."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Hey, Jim, give me your cup and I'll get us some more coffee."  
>     
>  "Why thanks, darlin'"  
>     
>  "Jim!  Here?!"  
>     
>  "Rules, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, at least keep it down to a whisper."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Hey, Megan, do you have any idea What Ellison and Sandburg have been  
>  whispering about all afternoon?"  
>     
>  "No idea, but it seems like some sort of friendly disagreement.  I'll  
>  see if I can find out .. discreetly, of course."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Blair-baby"  
>     
>  "Jim-julep."  
>     
>  "Precious, diminutive paramour."  
>     
>  "Ellison-pudding-pie."  
>     
>  "Luscious-lipped sugarplum"  
>     
>  "Dear, sweet, morsel for my mastication."  
>     
>  "What?!"  
>     
>  "You heard me, Jim, my muscular manna from the heavens."  
>     
>  "Smoochy-faced, love-peanut."  
>     
>  "Sugar-coated lug-nut"  
>     
>  "My Blair-blossom, cuddle-kitten."  
>     
>  "You're my honeyed love-potion, libation of the deities."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Find out anything, Megan?"  
>     
>  "Well, Brown, they seem to be arguing over the accuracy of certain  
>  vocabulary items."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Blair, my wee kumquat, let's take off."  
>     
>  "Sure thing, Marshmallow butt."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "My Jim, my spoon-sticky sweetmeat."  
>     
>  "Nectar-drenched confection."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Jim, I am smitten.  You are the fire that enflames my heart; a  
>  succulent feast left to me by some beneficent god; a heady liquor I'm  
>  drawn to drink in."  
>     
>  "I win."  
>     
>  "You win, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Actually, *you* win in the category of linguistic proficiency; I win  
>  because I have you."  
>     
>  In that category, beloved, I hereby proclaim a draw."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:57:21 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Your request  
>     
>  Panther:  
>     
>  The room is yours.  And to be honest....*we girls* will probably feel  
>  more like letting our hair down if we're not *all* sleeping on the floor  
>  together. <g>  
>     
>  Don't know about you but we'll be getting up mighty early Friday morning  
>  and I *so* did not want to see a bunch of women covering themselves with  
>  their sleeping bags to avoid "you guys" seeing us with "morning hair"  
>  <VBG>  
>     
>  BUT, and this is a very big but, we still hope you will join us in  
>  the*party* part of slumber party?  I find myself looking forward to  
>  hearing  
>  a man's take on the show and the relationship between the two  
>  guys.....Any problem?  If there is....I could find a way to hide a pea  
>  under the mattress.....*s*  
>     
>  Hope this puts your mind at rest?  And I live in a surprisingly country  
>  type atmosphere, on a small mountain/hill, with lots of beautiful  
>  walking areas and greenbelts....lots of privacy and very calming.  
>  Um....kinda romantic too.  
>     
>  See you soon.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:56:18 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: panther@rainet.com  
>  To: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  Subject: Thanks  
>     
>  On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Allison wrote:  
>     
>  : The room is yours.  And to be honest....*we girls* will probably feel  
>  : more like letting our hair down if we're not *all* sleeping on the  
>  : floor together. <g>  
>  :  
>  : Don't know about you but we'll be getting up mighty early Friday  
>  : morning and I *so* did not want to see a bunch of women covering  
>  : themselves with their sleeping bags to avoid "you guys" seeing us with  
>  : "morning hair"  
>  : <VBG>  
>     
>  I thought this might very well be the case.  So then, it will be of  
>  mutual benefit.  Good.  
>     
>  : BUT, and this is a very big but, we still hope you will join us in the  
>  : *party* part of slumber party?  I find myself looking forward to  
>  : hearing a man's take on the show and the relationship between the two  
>  : guys.  
>     
>  Oh, most definitely.  I didn't mean to give the impression that we  
>  would hide all night.  We *want* to join the party. We're coming down  
>  because we want to help out the show and well, we really need a  
>  vacation.  It'll be interesting to meet the faces that go with the  
>  names.  
>     
>  Once again, thanks for everything.  
>     
>  \--Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:12:54 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: allison <alyjude@webtv.net>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Re: Thanks again  
>     
>  Panther,  
>     
>  Glad to hear you'll be part of the "slumber party" and can't wait to  
>  meet Blair.  Are you half as excited as I am?  
>     
>  Confession time:  and I wouldn't be "confessing" except you *are* a  
>  gentleman and sound so sympathetic....I'm a little nervous about meeting  
>  all the people we have been corresponding with on the list...Will they  
>  like me?  Will I be a disappointment to anyone?  Heck, will they even  
>  care?  Any of these feelings sound familiar?  Or am I just being a dope?  
>  And a tad paranoid?  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:24:27 -0800 (PST)  
>  From: Cynara <cynarapherson@Yahoo.com>  
>  To: panther@rainet.com  
>  Subject: Re: Maybe too person  
>  On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Cynara wrote:  
>     
>  : Hearing the good news from Wolf on-list, and not recalling seeing much  
>  : from you, I thought I'd write and ask.  Off-list, in case this is too  
>  : personal.  
>     
>  : Did you talk to him?  How did it go?  
>     
>  : Best of luck!  
>       Cynara,  
>     
>  \---"panther@rainet.com wrote:  
>  >  
>  > You must have missed the post on the list in which I said that 'yes'  
>  > I did have that talk.  
>  >  
>  > It went well enough.  We're both new at this type of relationship with  
>  > a man, so we're nervous and taking it slowly.  
>  >  
>  > More than that, I'd rather not discuss at the moment.  
>  >  
>  > Thanks for your good wishes.  
>  >  
>  > \--Panther  
>     
>  Aw, isn't that sweet! (sorry, couldn't resist ;)  
>     
>  Gotcha.  
>     
>  Actually, I sent it out right before I got to your post.  Hazard of  
>  composing before getting to the end of the inbox.  
>     
>  Glad that it's going well.  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999, about 11:00 p.m.  
>     
>  "So ... Chief, I've done some reading about our situation and was  
>  wondering if I could ask you something."  
>     
>  "Sure, Jim.  What?"  
>     
>  "Well, I don't know how common it is for guys to hit our ages and  
>  realize that they could be attracted to guys .. or even just one guy ...  
>     
>  "But I've read something that suggests that it happens and the sorts of  
>  things that get in the way of .... things.  And I was wondering if any  
>  of it is like how *you* feel.  
>     
>  "The list of 'issues' seems to include fear of the unknown, crises of  
>  identity, and performance anxiety.  Any of that relevant, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Oh .. I would say that's a start on the list, yeah."  
>     
>  "Is there any way I can help you with that?"  
>     
>  "Well, really, the whole gender identity thing I'll have to deal with  
>  myself because it has to do with my being comfortable with my self-  
>  perception."  
>     
>  But fear of the unknown and performance anxiety .. yeah, maybe.  
>  Probably.  I mean it's only logical, right? "  
>     
>  "Logical?"  
>     
>  "That you would have to help me."  
>     
>  "You're losing me."  
>     
>  "Well ... how does one overcome fear of the unknown?"  
>     
>  "Education. ...  Information. ..."  
>     
>  "By putting yourself in the position to *know.* By making it *known.*"  
>     
>  "But Blair, how are you going to do that .. if .."  
>     
>  "Yes.  I know, Jim. But I'm just not sure how one overcomes performance  
>  anxiety, exactly."  
>     
>  "By not performing?"  
>     
>  "That's not overcoming it, that's avoidance, right?"  
>     
>  "I don't mean 'not making love'; I mean 'not performing.'"  
>     
>  "Oh."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 5 Jan 1999 about 12:30 a.m.  
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>                             . . .  
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>                                  <GASP!>  
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>                                            . . .  
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999, 7:00 a.m.  
>     
>  "Mornin,' Jim."  
>     
>  "Mrnnn.."  
>     
>  "Sleep well, love?"  
>     
>  "Until *now.* ... I notice you've brushed your teeth, already."  
>     
>  "I *knew* that Sentinel senses had to be good for *something,* and there  
>  it is -- you can gauge the state of my dental hygiene from three feet  
>  away!"  
>     
>  "I wouldn't *need* my Sentinel senses if you'd get over here where you  
>  should be."  
>     
>  <bounce> <bounce>  
>  <thud>  
>     
>  "<gasp!>  
>     
>  "<GASP!!>  
>     
>  <roll-roll-roll-roll-roll><crash!>  
>     
>  <thud>  
>     
>  "Ow-ow-ow-ow! Get off!"  
>     
>  "You might want to re-phrase that, Chief."  
>     
>  "Ow! Squashed! Hair pulled! Off!"  
>     
>  "Me Jim, you Blair."  
>     
>  "No...Me! You! Bed! Now!"  
>     
>  "God, I've created a monster."  
>     
>  "Aw, Jim, man, it's not *that* big."  
>     
>  . . .  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999, 9:00 a.m.  
>     
>  "Got everything packed, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Yep.  Ready to go."  
>     
>  "We'll have to make a couple of stops before we get out of town. Let's  
>  see ... ATM .. gas .."  
>     
>  "Drug store.  Definitely, drug store."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 5 Jan 1999, 5:10 p.m.  
>     
>  "Back in the car, Chief."  
>     
>  "What?  No room at the inn?"  
>     
>  "Not for us."  
>     
>  "Not for us?  Why?  What happened?"  
>     
>  "I was busily filling out their forms and the guy was taking down the  
>  license plate and asking the usual questions -- 'smoking or non-  
>  smoking,' how many in your party -- and when I said 'two,' he looked out  
>  the window and saw you getting out of the truck. ...  Then, he offered a  
>  room with two beds. So I said that wasn't necessary. And he gave me  
>  a*look.*  
>     
>  "I know the look, Jim."  
>     
>  "I've run into enough bigots in my life to know that look, too, but I  
>  didn't feel we should have to pay more for a bed we're not going to use.  
>  So I asked for a room with one bed.  And he said there weren't any  
>  available.  And I knew he was lying.  I was so pissed off I had to get  
>  out of there. And all I could think was 'Well, so *now* it starts."  
>     
>  "You knew it was going to start sooner or later, Jim"  
>     
>  "Yeah, but this was sooner than I expected."  
>     
>  "Regrets?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, some.  I regret that we've driven over 460 miles -- a third of it  
>  in pouring rain and the rest in cold and fog -- I'm tired and I need to  
>  rest and this asshole is hassling me about how many fucking beds he's  
>  willing to rent me.  
>     
>  "I almost regret not punching his goddam lights out."  
>     
>  "Well, eventually *he'll* regret that his attitude will lose him  
>  business.  Let me drive, Jim.  We'll just go to the next place, find a  
>  place where we're welcome. ... Or at least treated fairly."  
>     
>  "Fair is all I ask, Chief."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 5 Jan 1999, 5:35 p.m.  
>     
>  "Let *me* go in this time, Jim."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Just the two of you, sir?"  
>     
>  "Yes, Ma'am, just us."  
>     
>  "We're kind of full, because there's some sort of convention in town ...  
>  so we don't have too many choices for you."  
>     
>  "We're really very tired.  What do you have?"  
>     
>  "Well, in non-smoking, I'm sorry to say we don't have any rooms with two  
>  doubles left.  Just two singles or one double."  
>     
>  "We'll take the double."  
>     
>  "You sure you don't mind sharing, Sir?  
>     
>  "... Sir?"  
>     
>  "No, we don't have any problem with that."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Be there in a minute, Jim."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "I don't mean to pry, Sir, but is your friend all right?"  
>     
>  "Jim?  Oh, he's OK, just tired. It's been a long drive."  
>     
>  "He's kind of cute when he smiles, isn't he?  He taken?"  
>     
>  "Yes.  Definitely."  
>     
>  "So are you, I see."  
>     
>  Ma'am?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Tues, 5 Jan 1999, 6:05 p.m.  
>     
>  "Got some quarters, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Sure, here.  Why?"  
>     
>  "For this!  Join me."  
>     
>  "Sandburg, I'm tired."  
>     
>  "But Ji-ih-ih-ihm, I-I ha-a-aven't duh-uh-uh-uhn thi-ih-ihs in  
>  ay-ay-ay-ges!  It's fu-uh-uhn!"  
>     
>  "Well, Chief, I can definitely say that I've never met anyone who can  
>  have so much fun on a bed."  
>     
>  "Ah-ah-ahw, ma-a-a-a-an..."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999, 8:15 a.m.  
>     
>  "What is it, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Our waitress saw us holding hands and now doesn't want to wait on us."  
>     
>  "But then why are you laughing?"  
>     
>  "We're being handed off.  Wish you could hear this; it's priceless."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  <"Sheila, those two men did not come here to have sex on the table --  
>  they came here to get their breakfast.  If you don't want 'em, give 'em  
>  to me.">  
>     
>  <"You can have 'em.  And I thought you was a Christian.">  
>     
>  <"Honey, I *am* a Christian.  I *been* a Christian for years.  I know  
>  the Bible says God don't approve of two men doin' what we think they do,  
>  but let me just tell you somethin':  
>     
>  "I'm 60 years old, and I lived a long, hard, fast life before I came to  
>  the Lord.  I know that I am not without sin myself.  And Sheila, honey,  
>  I am too damn busy askin' for forgiveness to go pickin' up the first  
>  stone.  And I know you know what I'm talkin' about.  
>     
>  "So if you're not going to serve these people their food, just hand it  
>  to me so *I* can.">  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Jim?  A 30% tip?"  
>     
>  "Tell you about it in the truck."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999, 1:25 p.m.  
>     
>  "San Francisco is coming up, Jim."  
>     
>  "I see that."  
>     
>  "Didn't Carolyn move there a couple of years ago?"  
>     
>  "Yep."  
>     
>  "Were you, like, thinking of looking her up on the way down?"  
>     
>  "Now, just *why* would I want to do that, Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "Well, I thought you guys stayed friends and we're going to be ...  
>  there ... so I just thought ..."  
>     
>  "Sandburg ... Blair ... She's my ex-*wife*."  
>     
>  "That shouldn't be a problem.  She's met me before.  We don't have to  
>  mention anything's changed here."  
>     
>  "Are you kidding?  She knows me.  Almost as well as you do.  She'd take  
>  one look at us and *know* on the spot.  Besides, didn't you say that  
>  this trip was sort of like a 'honeymoon'?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, I guess not too many guys visit their ex-wives on their  
>  honeymoons.  Would be uncool. "  
>     
>  "'Uncool' pretty much covers it, Chief."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Jim?  How many of our other friends do you think can tell by looking at  
>  us?  I mean, besides Megan and Carolyn."  
>     
>  "Really don't know, Chief.  We'll know soon enough, though.  You  
>  worried?"  
>     
>  "No. .. Yes .. I don't know, a little.  You?"  
>     
>  "Not much I can do about it if they do.  I'll just have to face it when  
>  it happens."  
>     
>  "*We* will be facing it, Jim.  Together.  Remember that."  
>     
>  "Love you too, Chief."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999, 10:35 p.m.  
>     
>  "No, Jim, man, I'm sorry -- I just can't."  
>     
>  "Aagh! Why not, Babe."  
>     
>  "Can't you *hear* that?"  
>     
>  "Chief, *I* can hear the motor in the motel pool at the back of the  
>  building.  *I* can hear the damn bell that rings every time somebody  
>  opens the manager's office door.  Can't I hear *what*?"  
>     
>  "Well, even a non-sentinel can hear the water-running and the TV in the  
>  next room.  These walls are *thin,* man."  
>     
>  "Do you really think they can hear us?"  
>     
>  "Jim, *I* can hear the ticking of the clock next to the bed in *their*  
>  room.  They can hear us."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  <squeak-squawk .. squeak-squawk .. squeak-squawk .. 'ohhh,  
>  ga-a-a-a-a-a-wd' .. >  
>     
>  "Oh man, now I can hear *them*!  I'll *never* get to sleep!"  
>     
>  "Well, Chief, they're too distracted to pay much attention to us ..  
>  might as well join the chorus, hmm?"  
>     
>  "<giggle> Sure, Jim. .. But you gotta stop tickling, man, or I won't be  
>  able to help you balance out that soprano."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thursday, January 7, 1999, 1:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Chief, why don't you get started unloading the stuff while I go see if  
>  Aly's in."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "You're *here*!"  
>     
>  "Yeah, we're here.  Blair's out getting the stuff out of the truck.  
>  Could I ask you a favor?  Could you not refer to me as 'Panther' this  
>  weekend, call me 'Jim,' instead?  
>     
>  "He doesn't know you're on the list? ... oh, OK ... but he does know  
>  about slash, right?"  
>     
>  "Yes, no problem there.  It's just ... I'll tell him about the list,  
>  eventually, but I would like to do it in my own time, all right?"  
>     
>  "Sure! Glad to help."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thursday evening January 7, 1999, 4:45 p.m.  
>     
>  "Who do we have here?"  
>     
>  "This is RG .. Gina .. Patty .. Marmot .. Tobias and Marco .. and I'm  
>  Jenny."  
>     
>  "Well, as you may have guessed, I'm Aly.  Welcome!"  
>     
>  "Hi!  We finally meet!!!"  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Oh my *GOD*!  Look in the window!  Who is *that*?!"  
>     
>  "<giggle> That is .. um .. Jim.  He's here with his .. roommate, Blair."  
>     
>  "Roommate?"  
>     
>  "Well, let's just say that Joe and Jake are not alone ..."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "There seems to be a van full of women out there."  
>     
>  "You *would* be the first to notice that, Chief."  
>     
>  "Ha. Ha. Ha.  Just give it a rest, Jim, and let's go help them with  
>  their stuff."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thursday night January 7, 1999, 8:10 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, everybody, we need to figure out the shower schedule -- who wants  
>  tonight and who wants morning?  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "OK, Marmot and Gina are taking morning ... the rest of you taking  
>  tonight?  We have time for everybody?"  
>     
>  "Um ... well, if it helps, Jim and I can .. double up ..."  
>     
>  "Chief?"  
>     
>  "Saves time and water, Jim."  
>     
>  "Yeah, Jim, how can you resist an offer like that? ... We wouldn't.  In  
>  fact, think how much water you could save if we went *three* at a time!  
>  I'd be willing to help you guys out.  I could share."  
>     
>  "Well, um ... that's a .. nice offer, Jenny, but .. Jim and I um .."  
>     
>  "Very helpful idea, but my shower's a bit small for three people ...  
>  not that I would know that for sure, of course ... but I could *imagine*  
>  ..."  
>     
>  "Aly has spoken."  
>     
>  "Aw, she just wants them to herself."  
>     
>  "Looks like we better watch ourselves, Chief, we're outnumbered here."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thursday night, January 7, 1999, 9:05 p.m.  
>     
>  "Hey, you guys, come in the kitchen for a minute."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "While Jim and Blair are taking their shower, I thought I'd tell you the  
>  situation so things will go a little smoother later.  The guys *just*  
>  got together and are just a little shy about it.  So I promised them the  
>  guest bedroom so they can have a little privacy.  
>     
>  "Jim worried a little that it wouldn't be fair, but ..."  
>     
>  "No problem!"  
>     
>  "We got this sofa!"  
>     
>  "Tobias and Marco are sharing that sofa, who wants the other?  Marmot?  
>  RG has the chair?  How about you, Gina?"  
>     
>  "There is a carpet, therefore, I sleep on the floor."  
>     
>  "Everybody else OK with the floor?  OK.. that's settled.  Let's go get  
>  the tapes."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thursday Night, January 7, 1999, 9:10 p.m.  
>     
>  "What's the matter, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Nothing really.  Aly just let the ladies know why we'll be taking the  
>  guest bedroom later."  
>     
>  "Aww, ma-an."  
>     
>  "Back to turning magenta, Chief?"  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "Hand me the shampoo, Jim, I gotta get this mess washed."  
>     
>  "How 'bout I do it?"  
>     
>  "Fine, just watch the fingernails, OK? ... Mmmmmmmmm..."  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "My turn to do you, Jim."  
>     
>  "That's going to be a problem.  The shower head is too low, I don't  
>  know*how* I'm going to get any water to hit above my collarbone."  
>     
>  "You're definitely exaggerating, man."  
>     
>  "Maybe, but the way I figure it, the only way I'm going to be able to  
>  get my head wet is to get down on my knees.  
>     
>  "Chief? .. Chief?"  
>     
>  "Um .. sure, Jim.  Go for it, I'm *there.*"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Thursday Night, January 7, 1999, 10:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "Has everybody seen the blooper tape?  Gina? No?  Jim?  Blair? No?  You  
>  guys've never seen it?  You're in for a treat!"  
>     
>   ...  
>     
>  "I *love* seeing them kiss!  Robert and Gary are so comfortable with  
>  each other, have such chemistry -- it's really too bad the network won't  
>  even let Joe and Jake hug."  
>     
>  "Yeah, they've already censored a hug from at least one very important  
>  scene in the show -- they're such idiots!"  
>     
>  "Censorship really sucks, man, but Patty, you *know* why they did it --  
>  they'd lose a lot of guys in their audience if they let the guys get too  
>  ..."  
>     
>  "Too ... what, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Too ... outside what the culture expects for guys.  They already talk  
>  more to each other, stand closer to each other, touch each other more  
>  than most guys do.  The way they are *already* really pushes the  
>  envelope for mainstream TV.  A lot of guys are not ready to 'go there,'  
>  and the networks know it."  
>     
>  "But why ... oh never mind .."  
>     
>  "No...  'But why' *what,* RG?"  
>     
>  "But why shouldn't there be a show that pushes the envelope. That shows  
>  what's outside what's *expected*?  I'm tired of seeing the same old  
>  images of men and women.  I love seeing characters like Scully and Jake  
>  \-- characters that challenge what the culture says is 'normal.'"  
>     
>  "I'm not saying I *want* the network to maintain the status quo, just  
>  that I understand why they do it."  
>     
>  "But maybe, Chief, the usual reasons aren't good enough."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Maybe ... things might have been a bit easier for us ... if characters  
>  like Joe and Jake could ... if the networks didn't keep feeding us the  
>  idea that we shouldn't 'go there.'"  
>     
>  "How hard has it been for you guys, if you don't mind my asking?"  
>     
>  "No, I don't mind the question, Marmot ... but ..."  
>     
>  "Well, for one thing, Jim and I might have said something sooner ..  and  
>  maybe *I* ... well, let's just say that it would have been less  
>  stressful."  
>     
>  "It's pretty depressing when we're at the mercy of homophobes in the old  
>  boy network.  I mean, guys can blow each other's heads off but they  
>  can't hug -- what is that?!"  
>     
>  "Well, Jenny, as they say on WatchAD -- that's what fanfic is for,  
>  right?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Friday morning, January 8, 1999, 8:20 a.m.  
>     
>  "Chief .. Blair .. Wake up, buddy."  
>     
>  "Grrmmmrrrnn."  
>     
>  "That's easy for you to say."  
>     
>  "zza coffee?"  
>     
>  "Good guess.  Instant french roast."  
>     
>  "We gotta wake up, Chief -- everybody's leaving at ten."  
>     
>  "Coffee first. Sit, Jim."  
>     
>  "Well, it appears as though vocabulary items make their comeback before  
>  sentence structure.  You should write a paper on that.  
>     
>  "Why, Chief!  Such rude gestures first thing in the morning?  I'm  
>  shocked."  
>     
>  <knock-knock>  
>     
>  "Hey, guys?  You up, yet?"  
>     
>  "Not yet, Aly.  It takes an old guy like me much longer ... and even  
>  Blair needs more encouragement than a cup of coffee."  
>     
>  "<giggle> ... Well, how much encouragement does he need?  Anything you  
>  want us to help you with?"  
>     
>  "No, that's OK.  Nothing I can't handle ... We'll come out soon."  
>     
>  "Oh my God, Jim.  Don't ... Aw, man ... Just ... not now!"  
>     
>  "From the sounds of things, I'd say you already have."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Friday afternoon, January 8, 1999, 2:45 p.m.  
>     
>  "Jim, where'd the woman with the name tags go?"  
>     
>  "I saw two. They went off in opposite directions. The blonde went ...  
>  over there."  
>     
>  "You gonna get one?"  
>     
>  "Aww, I dunno, Chief.  I'm not really the nametag kinda guy."  
>     
>  "Well, since I've been on the Watchman list, I thought I'd let other  
>  listsibs know I'm here."  
>     
>  "That's just fine for you, Chief ..."  
>     
>  "But .. well .. I sort of .. told people you were coming to the Rally  
>  with me -- hey! I didn't tell them your name or anything -- so ... but  
>  if anyone meets me they'll want to meet you and ..."  
>     
>  "OK.  I'll wait here by the door, save our places.  You go get us both  
>  one."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Here ya go, sir."  
>     
>  "Thanks."  
>     
>  "A lotta people are writing their on-line nicks in larger letters, their  
>  real names below."  
>     
>  "Makes sense."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Here ya go, Jim ... What?"  
>     
>  "It really *was* you!"  
>     
>  "It really was me *what*?"  
>     
>  "You really were Wolf."  
>     
>  "Jim? ..... Jim?  What do you *mean,* man?"  
>     
>  "Just give me the pen a minute..."  
>     
>  "Jim?  What's going on?  What's with the weird face, man?"  
>     
>  "There, that should just about do it .. probably just about finishes it  
>  .."  
>     
>  "Whatsamatter, Jim? .. Finishes what? .... <gasp!> Aww, ma-an, it  
>  was*you*?!  YOU?!!"  
>     
>  "Chief, I --"  
>     
>  "Don't even touch me, man."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Friday afternoon, January 8, 1999, 2:55 p.m.  
>     
>  "Don't! .. You fuckin' *lied* to me, man."  
>     
>  "Chief, not here."  
>     
>  <SHHHH!>  
>     
>  "What's with the shushing?"  
>     
>  "It's part of the agreement with the hotel.  We can have the rally  
>  inside, use one of the rooms, if we're quiet out here."  
>     
>  <SHHHH!>  
>     
>  "You're lucky, man.  This is *not* over.  We're having this out after  
>  all this is done.  And you are in such deep shit."  
>     
>  "Chief--"  
>     
>  "Don't you 'Chief' me, Ellison."  
>     
>  <SHHHH!>  
>     
>  "Blair--"  
>     
>  "Ohmigod! The chats! .. The rehearsal!  .. What I said! .. You are so  
>  dead meat, man."  
>     
>  <SHHHH!>  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Friday evening, January 8, 1999, 7:35 p.m.  
>     
>  "What did you know and when did you know it, Ellison?"  
>     
>  "Don't talk to me like I'm some sort of Nixon clone, Sandburg.  And keep  
>  it down -- Aly and the rest will hear you."  
>     
>  "Just answer the question-- No! No!  I have a better one: When were you  
>  going to tell me, Jim?  *Were* you going to tell me?  Ever?"  
>     
>  "Yes, Blair, I was going to tell you."  
>     
>  "When?  How long were you going to pose as my comrade-in-angst?  Elicit  
>  my confidences?  <'Chief'>  Did you like 'coaching' me how to come out  
>  to you?  How *I* had to come out to you -- what?! so you wouldn't have  
>  to?  <'Chief'>  "And the advice about sex!  My God!  The panic attacks!  
>  How could you say you loved me and let me go through all that pain and  
>  panic?!"  
>     
>  "Chief? .. Blair? .. You ok?"  
>     
>  "No, I am *not* ok."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Aly?  Could we please have a small paper bag?"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Friday Evening, January 8, 1999, 7:55 p.m.  
>     
>  "Better?"  
>     
>  "A little. .. But you better start talkin', man.  ..  When did you  
>  know?"  
>     
>  "I had been on WatchAD from early November.  I wasn't sure how you'd  
>  take it if you knew, so ....  And then mid-November 'Wolf' introduced  
>  himself to the list.  Do you know how good it felt to have another *guy*  
>  to talk to about this stuff?!"  
>     
>  "Yes.  I do, Jim."  
>     
>  "Yes, I guess you do. .. So then, I de-lurked.  I'd never posted to a  
>  list or a chat room in my life.  But I had to make contact.  I didn't  
>  know it was you. Not yet, anyway."  
>     
>  "When, Jim?"  
>     
>  "It's really not that straightforward, Blair.  There were times early on  
>  when I *suspected* but I couldn't say I *knew.* Didn't you ever suspect,  
>  Chief?  ... Chief?"  
>     
>  "Well, to be honest ..."  
>     
>  "You suspected?  Or *knew*?  You indulging in a little hypocrisy here,  
>  Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "I suspected at one point -- even ran a finger search on 'Panther's'  
>  addy, but your ISP refused the search.  But that was back early in  
>  December about the time they announced the Rally.  After that, I started  
>  having doubts.  It was like I 'knew' but I didn't know-know, you know?"  
>     
>  "Yes, I do know.  I think I suspected about then, too.  I vacillated.  
>  There'd be days I was *sure* and then ..."  
>     
>  "...You had doubts."  
>     
>  "Yeah, but sometimes it wasn't even like that.  To tell the truth, I  
>  didn't *want* to know.  There were so many clues .. But ..  I just ..  
>  Did. Not. Want. To believe it.  Because if I did .. "  
>     
>  "If you did, *what*?"  
>     
>  "If I *knew* it was you, if I let myself *believe* it was you, I'd be  
>  alone, Chief.  I'd have no one to talk to about .. things."  
>     
>  "What about *me,* Jim?"  
>     
>  "But Blair, you weren't talking to me; you would only talk to 'Panther.'  
>  I really needed help and 'Wolf' was *there* ... And if I lost 'Wolf' ...  
>     
>  "Aww, man, Jim. .. "  
>     
>  "It's almost like I needed *two* of you, if that makes any sense."  
>     
>  "Seems I was doing the same thing, man.  What a mess!  ..  
>     
>  "I guess there's an up side to all this -- we seem to be drawn to each  
>  other, whether we can see each other or not.  Welcome to cyberspace,  
>   man.  
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Saturday evening, January 9, 1999, 7:30 p.m.  
>     
>  "What's this bag doing in my suitcase, Sandburg?"  
>     
>  "Just a little something I picked up for you this morning at Paramount's  
>  Citywalk.  Jenny and Patty helped me pick them out."  
>     
>  "Boxers?"  
>     
>  "Not just boxers, Jim. ...  Here, bring them into the bathroom. ...  Now  
>  turn out the light."  
>     
>  "Glow in the dark boxers?!"  
>     
>  "Yeah.  Thought they'd help you lighten up a bit.  Read the back, man."  
>     
>  "'Hottest Buns in America'?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, man.  It's *you*!"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Sunday January 11, 1999, 7:15 p.m.  
>     
>  "We'll be home tomorrow, Jim."  
>     
>  "Yep."  
>     
>  "Don't we need to work a few things out before we go back?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, probably."  
>     
>  "'Probably?' Jim.  Do we know where this relationship goes after this?  
>  What do we tell people?  *Do* we tell people?"  
>     
>  "At work, it'll have to be 'need to know,' Chief."  
>     
>  "What about Simon?"  
>     
>  "I guess he needs to know."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Are we going to tell the list?"  
>     
>  "Oh, man!  The list!"  
>     
>  "They were pretty supportive.  And you promised them a report, Chief."  
>     
>  "Yeah-yeah .. It's just .. The stuff you *said* about me, Jim."  
>     
>  "Do you think they'll even remember any of it?"  
>     
>  "I don't know, man.  Some of those people have incredible memories for  
>  detail.  Have you *read* the analyses of the characters on that list?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, well, they're pretty tuned in to Joe and Jake.  Doesn't mean  
>  anything about us."  
>     
>  "But Jim!  Some people actually *save* the posts.  All they have to do  
>  is look back. ... I mean, you said I was *immature,* man."  
>     
>  "I said a lot of things.  More about myself than about you.  What's  
>  'immature' next to coming out to 700 strangers as bisexual?  Besides,  
>  consider the context.  I was talking about my fears of aging.  About  
>  losing my hair, my body, my attractiveness, my ability to .. perform .."  
>     
>  "Jim you are so not old.."  
>     
>  "I was afraid you wouldn't want me .. or that you wouldn't stay with me  
>  if .."  
>     
>  "And now, Jim? ...  Jim?  
>     
>  "... Jim, c'mon!  I already love ya, man.  It's not like I ever knew you  
>  when you *had* any hair.  And if this is what you call losing your body,  
>  well ... most guys never had a body then, because you are .. just ...  
>  well, just don't worry about that, ok?"  
>     
>  "Well, you should just know .. be prepared .. that .. well, when guys  
>  get older .. "  
>     
>  "You talkin' sluggish hydraulics, Jim? .. I already know a little about  
>  that.  I'm only hitting 30, and sometimes the hards are not as hard as  
>  they used to be.  
>     
>  "... Good to see I'm not the only one that gets to turn pink once in a  
>  while.  ...  So .. sometime down the road we'll turn into a couple of  
>  old softies.  We'll work it out together, right?"  
>     
>  "Looks like I'm going to have to write my own report to the list."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "A retraction on my premature pronouncement of your immaturity."  
>     
>  "Well, so far, that's the only thing that's been premature, so we're in  
>  luck.  
>     
>  <Whack!>  
>     
>  "Hey! No fair, all the pillows are on your side of the bed!"  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Sunday January 11, 1999, 9:15 p.m.  
>     
>  "Really, I'm sort of glad we had 'Wolf' and 'Panther' as friends, Jim."  
>     
>  "You are? .. But they weren't *real.*"  
>     
>  "Sure they were, Jim -- they were *us.* We're real, right?"  
>     
>  "If you say so."  
>     
>  "Jim.."  
>     
>  "So why are *you* glad we had fictional friends that really were real  
>  because they really were us?"  
>     
>  "Very funny, man.  Well, I just think ... I mean ... Do you really think  
>  you would have .. you know .. in the phonetics lab ..  otherwise?"  
>     
>  "Now, *that* was coherent.  OK, yes.  I mean *no.* I don't think I would  
>  have had the confidence to try talking to you about .. things, if I  
>  hadn't sort of practiced opening up to 'Wolf,' first."  
>     
>  "Same here.  Can you imagine how much of a basket case I would have been  
>  without my talks with 'Panther'?!"  
>     
>  "Worse than New Year's Eve, Chief?"  
>     
>  "Way worse."  
>     
>  "I don't get it.  If you're so prone to panic attacks, how do you *do*  
>  anything?"  
>     
>  "I'm not normally that bad, Jim."  
>     
>  "Well, that's flattering."  
>     
>  "No, it's not like that.  It's .. most things I do are .. *normal* .."  
>     
>  "Normal?  You?"  
>     
>  "Ha. Ha. Ha. How droll. .. I mean, normal for me.  I've been in college  
>  since I was 16.  I've had relationships, such as they were, with women  
>  for .. well, several years .. I've gone on field studies several times.  
>  All the things I do have become 'normal' -- nothing to panic about."  
>     
>  "What about getting shot at or kidnapped and all of that?"  
>     
>  "Well, then there's somewhere for all that adrenaline to *go.* I'm not  
>  just sitting there scared out of my pants for no obvious reason; there's  
>  an identifiable horror to face and either a place I can run to or some  
>  sort of thing to fight with.  All that energy gets to *go* somewhere,  
>  man."  
>     
>  "So .. with me ..?"  
>     
>  "It wasn't about you-you, it was about a *guy*-you."  
>     
>  "You weren't afraid of me-me, just guy-me."  
>     
>  "Right."  
>     
>  "Sandburg, that makes no sense.  'Me-me' *is* a 'guy-me.' Shit!  I'm  
>  starting to *talk* like you."  
>     
>  "Well, yeah, I know it doesn't make sense.  If what I felt made sense,  
>  my room wouldn't be full of paper bags right now."  
>     
>  "So-o, let me get this straight:  You'll stop panicking around me -- not  
>  me-me, *guy*-me -- once we become 'normal' or there's somewhere for all  
>  that energy to go.  Sounds great to me, Chief.  Let's get to work on  
>  it!"  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "You just told me what we have to do, Blair.  Which do you think we  
>  should try first -- doing it a lot or trying to use up that energy  
>  of yours all at once?"  
>     
>  "Aw, man ... "  
>     
>  "Yes.  I am.  Deal with it."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Monday night, January 11, 1999, 10:40 p.m.  
>     
>  "<chuckle>"  
>     
>  "What?"  
>     
>  "I was just remembering some of the stuff Wolf .. um .. *you* said on  
>  the list."  
>     
>  "Was I really that funny, Jim?"  
>     
>  "Well, .. not intentionally ..<chuckle> .."  
>     
>  "Jim..  What?!"  
>     
>  "Did you really try tasting yourself?"  
>     
>  "Yes. Yes, I did.  And if you remember that, you remember why."  
>     
>  "Easy .. easy.  Sorry.  It's just .... "  
>     
>  "I was being empirical, Jim.  Doing some testing.  How was *I* to know  
>  that I couldn't extrapolate my findings from one test subject to  
>  another?!"  
>     
>  "Well, Chief what *were* your findings?"  
>     
>  "Why don't you just find out for yourself?"  
>     
>  "Aw, Chief, more tests?"  
>     
>  "The best part of the scientific method, Jim."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Tuesday morning, January 12, 1999, 5:30 a.m.  
>     
>  "Wake up, Sleepybutt."  
>     
>  "Nooooooo mmmrmrrrm..."  
>     
>  "<chuckle>"  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "Chief? .. Chief, sit up. Coffee."  
>     
>  "Mrrrnng, Jm..."  
>     
>  "C'mon, Blair, we gotta get up."  
>     
>  "But it's still *dark*!"  
>     
>  "Promised Simon we'd be back to the station this morning.  Early."  
>     
>  "Coffee?"  
>     
>  "Right here.  But ya gotta sit up.  Don't want ya to spill it."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "We gonna tell 'im?"  
>     
>  "Probably should.  When the time's right.  Don't ya think?"  
>     
>  "Yeah.  Probably. ... What you gonna say, man?"  
>     
>  "Don't really know.  Think of something."  
>     
>  "Probably won't have to."  
>     
>  "You think we're that obvious?"  
>     
>  "Maybe not you, Jim, but Megan saw right through *me.* ... And besides,  
>  remember when Tanya in clerical and Eric the tow truck driver *finally*  
>  got together?"  
>     
>  "Yeah, you're right.  Couldn't miss it.  At first, I thought there was  
>  something *wrong* with her.  Rapid pulse.  Shallow breathing.  Flushed  
>  face.  Thought it was an incipient attack of asthma."  
>     
>  "Ah, my Jim, ever the romantic."  
>     
>  "And then she told her clerk buddies downstairs. You could hear the  
>  squeals from the third floor!"  
>     
>  "Well, *you* could, anyway."  
>     
>  "So ... you think all our heavy breathing will give us away?"  
>     
>  "<chuckle> Maybe."  
>     
>  "Maybe not, though.  If we've felt this way for a couple of years, then  
>  maybe we won't look any different."  
>     
>  "Tanya and Eric were making goo-goo eyes at each other for *months*  
>  before they finally did anything about it."  
>     
>  "'Goo-goo eyes,' Chief?"  
>     
>  "But as soon as .. the deed was done .. as they say ... *everybody*  
>  just*knew.* They'll know, Jim."  
>     
>  "Well, so .. I guess we won't have to say anything, then."  
>     
>  "Ah, my Jim, the pragmatist."  
>     
>  "I thought I was 'your Jim, the romantic.'"  
>     
>  "Whatever you are, Jim, you're *mine*"  
>     
>  "You're right -- they'll know."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Tuesday morning, January 12, 1999, 7 a.m.  
>     
>  "Why'd ya hit 'hold,' Jim?"  
>     
>  "Gotta ask before we get off the elevator.  You gonna be OK with people  
>  knowing?  You ready for this?"  
>     
>  "Kind of late to be askin' me *now,* isn't it?"  
>     
>  "Well?"  
>     
>  "Ready when you are, J. E. .. Kiss me, first?"  
>     
>  "Why is it I feel like we're replaying the ending of 'Thelma and  
>  Louise'?"  
>     
>  "Which one of us got Brad Pitt? -- mmmmph! Mmmmm...mmmm...  
>     
>  "Ready!  Definitely ready, Jim. .. Jim?"  
>     
>  "Gimme a minute."  
>     
>  "I'll give you a hint, Jim: loose pants and over-sized shirts."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Tuesday morning, January 12, 1999, 7:15 a.m.  
>     
>  "Ellison!  Sandburg!  My office."  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  "You gentlemen get that family matter taken care of?"  
>     
>  "Yes, sir."  
>     
>  "Whatever it was .. out of your system?"  
>     
>  "Not exactly, Simon."  
>     
>  "Jim?"  
>     
>  "Some understandings have been reached, sir, but this isn't something  
>  that I'm likely to .. get 'out of my system,' any time soon."  
>     
>  "Blair?"  
>     
>  "I'm with Jim, Simon, all the way."  
>     
>  "Well, whatever it is, don't let it interfere with your work.  That  
>  clear, gentlemen?"  
>     
>  "Crystal, Sir."  
>     
>  "Sure, Simon."  
>     
>  "That'll be all. .. And guys?"  
>     
>  "Hmm?"  
>     
>  "Congratulations."  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:22:06 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: watchad@list1.channel1.com  
>  From: Gina Collum <ladyjayne@looksmart.com>  
>  Subject: 'puter crash & obwatchad  
>     
>  Got home from the Watchman rally at 10:30pm Sunday, turned on the  
>  roomie's computer expecting to get started on a week's worth of WXF,  
>  WatchAD, w2p2, and slashpoint... and the 'puter wouldn't boot.  A friend  
>  is downloading and saving my mail so hopefully stuff won't bounce.  My  
>  sis and I were planning to get a new 'puter anyway; we'll prolly  
>  purchase it next week.  Guess my rally report's gonna be late.  In the  
>  meantime...  
>     
>  Ann -- I'm still working on the FAQ, I swear, I just haven't posted the  
>  changes yet.  I'm trying not to be redundant with Maeg's Survival Guide.  
>     
>  Bast, Wolfling, and anyone else wondering about "Improv" -- it's still  
>  in progress, but I hope to get it done soon.  (Thanks for asking, Bast!)  
>     
>  SammieC and EagleEye -- heh heh, this past week, a few more elements of  
>  plot fell into place on the other auction story.  And I'm thinking about  
>  changing the title *again*.  :)  EE, please say hi to the #watchman and  
>  #watchslash folk for me.  
>     
>  Virg -- I know it's been weeks since you wrote me about what I posted on  
>  the subject of why some of us complain about sex scenes interrupting  
>  plot, but I did write a reply and will send it when I can. Wasn't  
>  purposely ignoring you, I just get overwhelmed around the holidays.  
>     
>  Jencat, Panther & Wolf, Patty, Marmot & sons, ratgirl, Allison (thank  
>  you again for the hospitality) -- It was great meeting y'all!  I look  
>  forward to another gathering.  Soon.  It sounds like some of you  
>  <casually glancing in Panther's direction> don't take nearly enough  
>  vacations. <weg>  
>     
>  Jencat -- Thanks for arranging the vanpool!  I had a great time.  Are we  
>  Bay Area fen making plans to see the return of "The Watchman" together?  
>  Guess I'll get in touch by phone.  
>     
>  Happy new year, everyone.  
>     
>  obwatchad: oooOOooo*  
>     
>  Jake bounced into the loft, looking forward to next week's scheduled  
>  return of his favorite TV show, "The Guardian".  
>     
>  "Yes.  Okay," Joe was saying into the phone, facing the balcony. "Fine.  
>  Whatever."  
>     
>  Jake stopped dead, looking at his partner.  Then he carefully set down  
>  his keys and backpack.  
>     
>  Joe touched the cutoff button and tucked his cell back into the pocket  
>  of his coat.  Moving slowly, he shed the coat and left it on the floor.  
>     
>  "What's the matter?" Jake said finally.  
>     
>  "It was my dad."  Joe's eyes were just touched with red, the only hint  
>  of unhappiness in his too-normal expression.  
>     
>  Jake crossed the living room, hung up the coat, then returned to Joe's  
>  side.  "What did he say?"  
>     
>  Joe shrugged.  
>     
>  Sliding his arms around Joe's waist, Jake lay his head on his lover's  
>  shoulder -- because it was what Joe wanted to do, because it was what  
>     
>  Joe could not do.  Because only Jake could do it for him.  
>  *end*  
>     
>  \--Gina, Keeper of Joe's table legs  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Rally Report, Part 1  
>     
>  Well, fellow fen, I'm back.  And what a trip it was!  
>     
>  I promised the list that I would give a report as soon as I returned  
>  from LA.  Well, there've been a couple of RL considerations I've had to  
>  attend to.  But now I'm ready.  
>     
>  I've decided to write the report in parts as they occur to me.  Some of  
>  my observations deal strictly with the show and others have more to do  
>  with how the weekend went .. socially and personally.  
>     
>  Several people have already given their reports, I'm sure, but I haven't  
>  had time to sort through the 674 messages in my inbox, yet, so I don't  
>  know how much will be repetition.  
>     
>  Here goes ...  
>     
>  While we were on our way down, some of the timeline for the events  
>  changed.  It worked to our advantage, though, since postponing the rally  
>  until the afternoon allowed us to get more sleep Friday morning,  
>  something I really appreciated after spending 3 days on the road.  
>     
>  The first official event was the tour through the Burbank offices of  
>  Cuddly Termite Productions.  
>     
>  Sometimes there wasn't much to see, especially in the hallways, but we  
>  did get to meet one of the editors, who was working on a scene from one  
>  of the upcoming episodes.  I saw one 2-second scene, in which Joe is  
>  looking at a grave-marker.  But I hear that others on other tours saw  
>  longer, more spoiler-laden scenes.  
>     
>  I can report that our letters, e-mail and websites have definitely been  
>  noticed by Cuddly Termite.  They were taped all over the wall of one  
>  office!  
>     
>  We got to briefly say "hi" to the writer of one of the eps from third  
>  season -- the 'basketball' episode.  
>     
>  The tour was quite interesting at times, but I would say that one of the  
>  highlights was this POSTER.  
>     
>  Let me just preface this by saying that until I fell in love with my  
>  roomie, I hadn't really paid attention to guys' .. um .. physical  
>  attractiveness [can we say 'denial?].  And I never really noticed that  
>  my roomie looked so much like Robert Bergman.  Not exactly, but similar.  
>     
>  Well, I was walking down yet another hallway at Cuddly Termite, when I  
>  heard a chorus of feminine gasps and moans.  Curious, I looked through  
>  the office window which separated us from what seemed to serve as an  
>  icon there on the opposite wall.  And what was this icon, this source of  
>  combined agony and pleasure?  
>     
>  THE POSTER!  
>     
>  There in his tank-topped glory was Robert Bergman circa 1996, smiling  
>  smugly at the camera, his expression saying, "you *know* you want it."  
>  And I found myself thinking, "Oh god! Yes, I *do.*"  
>     
>  Those arms! That chest! Those shoulders!  It hurt to look!  
>     
>  And what was the caption?  "The Most Sensitive Man in America"  
>     
>  Flashes flashed for long minutes and breathless fen asked where we could  
>  get copies of the poster.  We were told that there weren't any.  Several  
>  fen were heartbroken.  Others promised to put photos of it up on  
>  websites for our ... enjoyment.  
>     
>  For some reason, my roomie was not as affected by it.  I guess when you  
>  see a similar build to that in the mirror every day, you get kind of  
>  inured to it.  
>     
>  The roomie had his own moment, though, when we got to see the casting  
>  office.  There on the wall was a picture of a slightly younger Gary  
>  Magnum with jaw-length hair.  You've seen the picture on one of the  
>  websites, I'm sure.  Roomie took one look and stopped our tour-line  
>  cold. For a *long* time.  I might have been embarrassed but it was just  
>  too funny to watch.  
>     
>  I can report that the tour guide and all the people we met at Cuddly  
>  Termite were quite friendly and approachable.  And my fellow fen were  
>  polite and fun to be around.  
>     
>  I'll end Part 1 here and post a bit later about the actual "Rally."  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Rally Report, Part 2 (Spoilers)  
>     
>  After the visit to Cuddly Termite's Burbank offices, we headed for the  
>  hotel.  
>     
>  Once again, there had been slight changes in plans after we had left my  
>  computer behind.  We discovered that very view fen dressed as casually  
>  as I had expected.  I normally don't worry about this sort of thing but  
>  I didn't want TPTB to discount our efforts as those of the great  
>  'unwashed.'  
>     
>  I needn't have worried about my own contribution to appearances, I soon  
>  discovered, since it wasn't my wardrobe but my gender that caused me to  
>  stand out in the crowd.  
>     
>  Yes, listsibs, just as there are probably no more than 5 males on this  
>  list, there were perhaps a total of 5 males in the crowd.  
>     
>  The demographics of the attending fen contrasted sharply with the  
>  demographics of the attending spokesMEN on stage.  
>     
>  My roomie thinks I'm making too big a deal about this, but I found  
>  myself wondering just how well the two groups would be able to  
>  communicate with each other, whether in fact, what the fans asked for,  
>  the creators would even understand well enough to deliver. But I  
>  digress.  
>     
>  Rather than an auditorium or theater setting, we found ourselves in some  
>  sort of banquet room at circular tables of about 8 each.  Our hosts set  
>  up 3 TVs so that fen in all sections of the room could see the episode,  
>  one that would come midway in the 4th season.  
>     
>  It was quite an amazing experience watching an ep in an audience of  
>  about 250 excited fans. I found myself laughing, listening to hundreds  
>  of women cheering and booing and laughing so loudly that I missed lines  
>  and even a sense of the whole episode. [Not a complaint, just an  
>  observation]  
>     
>  They cheered when they saw the intro and heard the new music; they  
>  cheered when they saw the episode title and the names of the stars.  
>  They cheered and laughed at little character moments, little touches of  
>  continuity tying this episode to earlier ones.  
>     
>  Without giving away too much of the episode, I wish to comment on a  
>  couple of aspects.  
>     
>  This was a Jake-centric episode.  We got to see more of him in his role  
>  as an academic, a role I can identify with.  This was something I had  
>  been hoping for.  
>     
>  But I felt that there was something lacking in the camaraderie between  
>  Joe and Jake.  It's not just that there were fewer scenes in which they  
>  were on-screen together -- that made sense with the plot, I guess.  But  
>  when they were on-screen, they seemed less 'together.' Their body  
>  language was more distant, separate.  It bothered me.  
>     
>  I'm hoping that this results from some logical, canonical situation and  
>  not from some homophobic political meddling.  
>     
>  After we viewed the episode, we had the pleasure of seeing Davey Belman,  
>  Peter DuMaurier, Bill A. Yancy, and Robert Bergman take the stage for a  
>  brief Q&A.  
>     
>  Robert was his usual charming, wry self, creating a 'spotlight' for  
>  himself from a small flashlight, as he walked on stage.  
>     
>  Most of the Q&A was friendly and appropriate, a lot of the time spent in  
>  sort of a mutual admiration and gratitude.  
>     
>  I've decided to focus on parts of the Q & A not exactly covered in  
>  previous reports.  Or let's say that I plan to focus on that aspect a  
>  bit differently, when I post Part 3.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: The Rally Report, Part 3 (Possible Spoilers)  
>     
>  Whenever I see the names of collaborators linked together with an 'and,'  
>  I'm at least temporarily fooled into believing that they will be similar  
>  in personality and outlook.  Fooled every time, even after knowing about  
>  Lennon and McCartney.  Got to get over that.  
>     
>  The names 'Belman and DuMaurier' had me fooled until I watched the Q&A.  
>  Can we say Yin and Yang?  (I'll return to this later)  
>     
>  So first I should start with the questions that were not asked, the  
>  'negative space,' so to speak.  
>     
>  The slash aficionados held their tongues, that of course being the  
>  politic thing to do.  No one asked whether DB would relent, as has Chris  
>  Carter apparently done with Mulder and Scully, and allow the partners to  
>  'leak' some of their true feelings for each other.  I know *I* held back  
>  on that one.  
>     
>  Also, while the fen were abuzz with the kind of gossip we are not  
>  allowed to discuss on WatchAD, no one sought to have our inferences  
>  confirmed.  
>     
>  But it went further than this.  We didn't refrain merely from asking  
>  whether Gary Magnum and a certain actress were 'an item.' We refrained  
>  from asking where the hell he was, I'm assuming because everyone was too  
>  embarrassed or polite to ask.  And we all knew, anyway.  
>     
>  But the silence sort of drew my attention to the fact that he was not  
>  there, but in Australia on vacation.  It was a loud silence.  
>     
>  OK, on to the questions that drew my attention.  
>     
>  Before I left, I asked the listsibs which questions they wanted me to  
>  ask or report on.  I'll answer those first.  
>     
>  Panther asked whether, by looking at the new episode, we could tell if  
>  the new season would be more or less slashy.  I think it's hard to tell  
>  how 8 episodes will go based on this one.  My impression of this  
>  particular episode was that it was definitely LESS slashy.  But I'm  
>  going to have to reassess when I view it in the context of the whole  
>  season, because I got the impression we were up against another 'arc,'  
>  in which one episode had to be understood in the context of those  
>  surrounding it.  
>     
>  Yeah, I know, wishy-washy.  
>     
>  Panther's other question had to do with the direction of season 5.  
>  Season 5 has NOT BEEN WRITTEN, yet.  DB said he would not even start  
>  writing until May, when he found out whether there would even be a  
>  season 5. [He admits to having a general sort of idea, but no solid  
>  plans]  
>     
>  There is a down side and an up side to this.  The down side for me is  
>  that it seems as though he lacks confidence in the network's ability to  
>  see past their prejudices.  He put all his effort into closing out this  
>  segment of the series, trying to go out with a bang, hoping he's left  
>  enough of a viable opening should TPTB get a clue.  
>     
>  But the UP side is ... Hey, guys!  we can write to him and make  
>  suggestions about how we want the 5th season to go -- things we would  
>  like to see!  We can be involved in the brainstorming process.  Way  
>  Cool!!  
>     
>  Casey asked about what the network was going to do about advertising.  
>  What I found surprising was that DB and PDM said *they did not know*  
>  what the advertisers had planned.  The whole advertising thing is out of  
>  their hands!  
>     
>  A corollary to that is that merchandising, something they would LOVE to  
>  do, is also out of their hands.  It's all up to US to request it.  
>     
>  Big surprise for me!  
>     
>  Now the thing that really stood out for me -- the differences between DB  
>  and PDM.  
>     
>  The 'slashiest' question asked was a request for hugs between the guys.  
>     
>  PDM did NOT 'get it.' He made a face like it was a weird request, like  
>  it was slightly off the wall or from left field or whatever. DB seemed  
>  to nod and say yes, he thought there were hugs.  He was a bit befuddled  
>  but seemed to grasp the import of the question.  PDM concluded that yes  
>  there were 'manly displays of affection.'  
>     
>  In what I think was a related question, someone asked about the gender  
>  of the fan base.  DB seemed quite happy with the fact that the 'fans  
>  were all women' [I knew what he meant, so I didn't take offense.] But  
>  PDM seemed to feel it was necessary to assert that there were a LOT of  
>  men out there watching -- millions in fact.  They just didn't go to  
>  rallies or write letters.  
>     
>  I couldn't tell whether PDM's concerns about demographics were political  
>  or personal.  
>     
>  Finally, DB said that much of what went into these new, eight eps were  
>  as a result of things we said we liked or wanted to see.  
>     
>  I've been reading the spoiler list since I returned and noticed that  
>  several people interpreted this pronouncement differently from how I  
>  did.  I don't think he meant that whole plot points or substance was  
>  added or changed for us.  
>     
>  I think he meant that because we see the details -- like the frozen peas  
>  on the injuries -- he included a lot of those little touches for us --  
>  the focused fans -- to get.  Almost like little 'in' jokes.  
>     
>  In fact, during our viewing of the episode, many people laughed at these  
>  little touches, the laughter of recognition that 'yeah, that's what Jake  
>  would do.'  
>     
>  PDM, in contrast, [IMHO] commented that he didn't realize the episode  
>  was that funny.  
>     
>  What I felt I was seeing were some real cultural differences between the  
>  audience and the creators of this show as well as perceptual differences  
>  between the collaborators.  And those differences seemed to be causing  
>  misfires in communication.  
>     
>  The goodwill was there but the differences were causing interference,  
>  IMHO.  
>     
>  Well, I seem to have gone on kinda long and my ... um .. roomie has  
>  requested my presence.  So I guess I'll get off now.  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Rally Report, Part 4 -- the personal stuff  
>     
>  Well, listsibs, if you've read parts 1-3 of my report, you could  
>  probably tell that they were hard to write -- I felt so .. like I had to  
>  be more formal or something.  Like some sort of newspaper reporter.  
>     
>  Well, if you don't mind, I really want to tell you about my trip to LA,  
>  the fen I met, and some news on the home front. Lighten up a bit.  
>     
>  (I know that not all WatchADians like to read the personal stuff, so I  
>  separated it from the REPORT.  That way, if you want to delete this, you  
>  won't miss any juicy gossip about 'the guys.' ;) )  
>     
>  My roomie and I took off Tuesday morning the 5th, driving through heavy  
>  rain in Washington, followed by cold and fog in Oregon and northern  
>  California.  Finally able to thaw out in LA!  
>     
>  We had a bit of trouble with accommodations on the trip down, since some  
>  service employees here and there had problems relating to two guys so  
>  obviously smitten. (Love that word, 'smitten.')  But on the whole,  
>  people were friendly. There is hope!  
>     
>  We were the first guests to unload on poor Aly!  We must have been  
>  pretty ripe from our days on the road.  But Aly was quite the host!  
>     
>  Turns out that Aly is really Allison.  This was pretty weird since I had  
>  originally made arrangements on my own to stay with her but then  
>  canceled saying that my roommate was making the arrangements.  Since  
>  I've had to be careful not using my roomie's or my real name on-line, we  
>  never put it all together.  This led to another strange coincidence I'll  
>  tell you about later...  
>     
>  So anyway, about 30 minutes after we arrived, this huge van pulled up  
>  and out piled Jenny, Patty, RG, Gina, Marmot and her sons, Tobias and  
>  Marco.  
>     
>  After we all got settled, claiming our sleeping spots and shower times,  
>  we did a video-watching marathon.  Gina and RG are relatively new to TW  
>  so we watched some favorite key eps for the slash-aware. And half of us  
>  had never seen the blooper reel, so that was on the agenda as well.  
>     
>  Aly cooked up a huge, filling pot of spaghetti.  Then, after dinner, she  
>  gave us the tour of the house, especially the kitchen and announced that  
>  she is "Jake-ish."  I was puzzled by that, until she reminded us of that  
>  great scene from season one, when Joe is hanging out with Jake in the  
>  warehouse.  Joe says, "I could use a beer," and Jake says, "It's in the  
>  fridge, man." ;)  The moral: Help yourself!  
>     
>  Well, I could tell you the minute-by-minute run-down of the weekend, but  
>  instead I'll sort of run through the stuff that kinda surprised me.  
>     
>  I was a little surprised by Marmot's 11-year-old son, Tobias and his  
>  brother Marco.  Seems they were the original fans at her house.  They're  
>   pretty precocious, slightly slash-aware but think the whole thing is  
>  pretty funny.  During the more outrageous 'parlor games,' they were  
>   asleep (or we're pretty sure they were asleep).  
>     
>  We're not used to just hanging out with a lot of women, so we took turns  
>  going outside to play Frisbee with Tobias and Marco, who seemed to  
>  appreciate it.  They confided that hanging out with their mom's friends  
>  was kind of weird.  
>     
>  Another surprise, which many people experience, is finding out that the  
>  mental picture you have of an on-line acquaintance differs so much from  
>  reality.  I'm sure *I* was a shock to them!  
>     
>  Like Aly.  I pictured her as about 5' 10" tall and having waist-length  
>  blonde hair.  I so do not have a clue where that picture came from.  
>  Turns out she's still pretty tall but not that tall.  And her hair is  
>  short and light brown with sort of blonde streaks.  
>     
>  And age.  I was sure that everybody was around my age, you know  
>  somewhere between 25 and 35.  But Aly, RG, and Marmot are really in  
>  their 40s and Gina was only about 22 or 23.  Only Jenny and Patty fit  
>  that part of the picture!  
>     
>  (My .. um .. paramour wants me to add that he's closer to 40 than to 30  
>  also and that the ladies' ages weren't really good predictors of  
>  behavior. [Those were not his words, but that's what he meant.])  
>     
>  I was pretty amazed by how different women are from men. In *behavior*!  
>  You know what I mean!! (My sweetie is looking over my shoulder and  
>  making rude remarks about my writing.  Now he's questioning my use of  
>  the word 'sweetie' .. Back in a minute.)  
>     
>  Sorry, I've lost my train of thought.  Oh yeah, some differences  
>  between men and women, you know, besides the obvious ones.  
>     
>  Like picking places to sleep.  No one bothered to fight over places to  
>  sleep.  Aly let us use the guest bedroom and nobody seemed to care.  
>  Tobias and Marco  claimed one of the sofas and people just sort of  
>  grabbed places on the floor.  There was no competition or conflict in  
>  it.  No flipping coins or arguments.  Very strange but kinda cool.  
>     
>  Also, the next day, when we all went to lunch together between the visit  
>  to Cuddly Termite and the Rally, my roommate just about lost it [quietly  
>  and politely, of course] while the women at the table passed the bill  
>  around and each figured what she owed.  Accurately, I might add.  It was  
>  a real trip to watch that muscle in his jaw just sort of pop a bit.  I  
>  just knew he wanted someone to do the 'normal' thing and *grab* that  
>  sucker and pay the whole thing.  A bit of a culture clash -- what a  
>  hoot!  
>     
>  Roomie had been told that one of the nights would be a slumber party.  
>  We knew nothing of what to expect.  Well, let me tell you, I had  
>  no*idea* how raunchy women could get when they talk about stuff,  
>  especially slash.  I thought you all on the *list* were blunt!  There is  
>  no part of the human anatomy or its function that they will NOT discuss  
>  with quite a bit of candor and with great relish!  Not for the faint of  
>  heart.  I can think of several fellow students who could write whole  
>  papers on this little linguistic find!  
>     
>  I also found out that the whole mutual grooming thing I had heard about  
>  \-- hairbrushing and putting on each other's makeup -- is really not what  
>  happens after adolescence, at least that's what they told me.  
>     
>  I was a little disappointed.  I like getting my hair brushed...  
>     
>  And the games!  Jenny introduced this game, which Marmot admits to  
>  having played in junior high school, called "He/She."  It's sorta like  
>  Madlibs.  
>     
>  Each person has a slip of paper on which you write the answer to a  
>  question.  You cover the answer and pass the paper to the left and that  
>  person answers the next question until about 8 questions have been  
>  answered.  The result is a story.  
>     
>  This is what the sequence can look like when you're done:  
>     
>  Who is HE                     Mulder  
>     
>  Who is SHE                    Scully  
>     
>  Where are they                In the Basement  
>     
>  What are they doing           The Macarena  
>     
>  What did he say               I want to believe  
>     
>  What did she say              Mulder, It's me  
>     
>  Who saw them                  Skinner and Scully's mother  
>     
>  What did the  
>  people who saw, say?          Get down from there;  
>                                 you'll break your necks  
>     
>  What did they reply           The Truth is out there  
>     
>  How did it end?               A 4-way on Mulder's rolodex  
>  **  
>     
>  Except we made it HE/HE and the parts ended up making NO sense.  
>     
>  So you could end up with these stories, like...  
>     
>  Jake and Joe were in interrogation room #3 playing 'cop-in-leather meets  
>  the free-love hippie.' Jake says, "I'm not in the mood to have my head  
>  ventilated by some pissed-off magpie!"  Joe replies, "Yeah, or maybe the  
>  sun won't rise."  Mulder and Krycek saw them and said, "The truth!  You  
>  couldn't handle the truth!"  And Jake and Joe replied, "NO!  It's not  
>  over!"  And it all ended in a double wedding complete with Irish step  
>  dancers and lots of lube.  
>     
>  After lots of beverages and multiple rounds of this game, the  
>  raunchiness factor and the laughter rose considerably.  
>     
>  I had to usher my roomie off to bed sort of early, due to his  
>  sensitivity to noise, especially the rather loud, high-pitched sound of  
>  the feminine guffaw.  
>     
>  (My sweetie wants me to tell you that it wasn't personal, that he  
>  actually had a good time up until the end when we started pairing up our  
>  favorite slash guys with the people at the party. (I think he was just  
>  jealous that Jenny got Joe) Oh, no, he says he wanted Jake.  I stand  
>  corrected.)  
>     
>  My roommate, who will kill me if I call him sweetie one more time, is  
>  nagging me to get off the computer.  So I will end Part 4 here.  
>     
>  Hope this wasn't too long.  
>     
>  Had a great time!  
>     
>  \--Wolf  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:56:19 -0800 (PST)  
>  To: WatchAD@list1.channel1.com  
>  Cc:  
>  Subject: WatchAD: Going on Digest  
>     
>  Listsibs:  
>     
>  Wolf and I have talked things over and have decided to co-author this  
>  post.  
>     
>  We're a bit nervous about this but many on this list have sent us their  
>  good wishes and offered advice over the past two months, so we feel that  
>  we owe it to you to do this.  
>     
>  Just as Allison and a few other sibs suspected from the beginning, we  
>  discovered -- during the rally -- that while we had been writing to each  
>  other about our feelings for our roommates -- all this time, we were  
>  really writing about each other.  
>     
>  The clues were there, at least for me, but at first, I couldn't believe  
>  it and then later had doubts and eventually just wouldn't let myself  
>  believe what Allison and others could see so plainly.  Many of my life  
>  decisions have been fear-based; getting sucked into denial is just one  
>  of them, it seems.  
>     
>  Wolf says 'ditto,' (But not in those words).  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  My turn.  
>     
>  I was so not ready for all this!  
>     
>  But that's not what we are writing this post about.  Panther is giving  
>  me 'that look' -- the one that says 'get on with it.' :)  
>     
>  We are writing to send everybody a big thank you for listening to us  
>  through all our angsty rants and for all the encouragement to 'just do  
>  it!' (something I think I've heard a lot more of lately ;))  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  If Wolf is done with his little innuendoes, I'll just get on with it  
>  here.  
>     
>  We are about to go on digest because we can't look in on the list as  
>  often as we have been.  Wolf needs to focus on his academic work and we  
>  both need time to focus on each other.  
>     
>  I feel strange saying this.  I've known this guy for 3 years, but now I  
>  feel as though I have to get to know him all over again.  I didn't  
>  realize that ...  
>     
>  I don't know how to say it.  
>     
>  It's not that there is *more* feeling here or *more* relationship.  It's  
>  more like it's *different.* Like we've moved *sideways.* (Wolf is doing  
>  little sideways dance steps for our amusement.  He is so cute.  Oops! He  
>  didn't like the "C" word.)  
>     
>  Anyway, now we need the time to figure this out, figure each other out.  
>     
>  ...  
>     
>  Panther and I still want to check in on the list and maybe de-lurk  
>  occasionally on threads that we have something to say about.  And we  
>  definitely will read the Tuesday Morning Quarterbacking of the eps this  
>  season!  Probably join in.  
>     
>  If anyone wants to 'e' us privately, feel free.  
>     
>  Thanks for listening.  
>     
>  And happy Watchman watching!  
>     
>  \--Wolf and Panther  
>     
>     
>  oooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooooooOOooo  
>     
>  Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999, 5:25 p.m.  
>     
>  "What are you *doing*?  
>     
>  "What does it look like I'm doing, Jim?  I'm taking out the recycling."  
>     
>  "But what's in all those shopping bags?  Where did they come from?"  
>     
>  "My room.  They came from my room, Jim."  
>     
>  " .. And?"  
>     
>  "What's in 'em?"  
>     
>  "That's what I asked, Blair."  
>     
>  "My stash of small paper bags, Jim.  
>     
>  Re-cycling them.  Don't need 'em anymore."  
>     
>                                 \--finis--  
>   


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